REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM >>LORENE: HELLO, I AM LORENE MILLS AND WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

WE ARE IN FOR A TREAT TODAY.

ONE OF MY FAVORITE GUESTS IS DR. RICHARD D. WOLFF, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS AT UMASS AMHERST FROM 1973 TO 2008, I GUESS THEY SORT OF LIKED YOU.

HE HAS TAUGHT AT YALE, THE CITY UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK, CURRENTLY HE IS VISITING PROFESSOR AT THE NEW SCHOOL UNIVERSITY IN NEW YORK CITY, RIGHT?

>>RICHARD: YES.

>>LORENE: BUSY AND YOU HAVE A PHD IN ECONOMICS FROM YALE, ADVANCED DEGREES FROM HARVARD AND STANFORD AND YOU HAVE WRITTEN SOME OF MY FAVORITE BOOKS.

ONE IS CALLED, CAPITALISM HITS THE FAN , BUT THE NEW ONE IS CALLED THE SICKNESS IS THE SYSTEM , WE HAVE A LOT TO HEAR ABOUT THIS.

JUST ONE OTHER THING ABOUT YOUR MEDIA, YOU ARE SYNDICATED IN OVER 70 RADIO STATIONS WEEKLY AND YOUR SHOW IS CALLED "ECONOMIC UPDATE WITH RICHARD D.

WOLFF."

SO, WOULD YOU GIVE US AN ECONOMIC UPDATE, WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE ECONOMY THESE DAYS?

>>RICHARD: WELL, THESE DAYS I HAVE TO BEGIN ANY PRESENTATION LIKE THIS WITH AN URGENT REMINDER TO ALL OF YOU, WHICH IS I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE STATE OF THE ECONOMY I AM ABOUT TO DESCRIBE, SO IF IT UPSETS YOU, REMEMBER NOT TO BE ANGRY AT THE MESSENGER JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE THE MESSAGE.

OKAY, SO LET ME BEGIN.

WE HAVE AN ECONOMIC SYSTEM THAT IS IN DEEPER DIFFICULTY THAN I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE AND I AM TALKING TO YOU WITH GRAY HAIR, I HAVE BEEN A PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS MOST OF MY ADULT LIFE.

I WAS BORN MANY YEARS AGO IN A PLACE CALLED YOUNGSTOWN, OHIO AND I HAVE LIVED AND WORKED IN THE UNITED STATES EVER SINCE THAT TIME.

AND HERE IS THE REALITY, THE UNITED STATES HAD A VERY CHARMED HISTORY, WE HAD LOTS OF DIFFICULTIES BUT ROUGHLY FROM SHORTLY AFTER OUR INDEPENDENCE, SAY AROUND 1820 UP UNTIL 1970, THE UNITED STATES ECONOMY WAS GOING UP DECADE AFTER DECADE, WE PRODUCED MORE, WE HIRED MORE PEOPLE, WE PROVIDED MORE JOBS AND INCOMES AND PEOPLE'S INCOMES ROSE.

IT CONTINUED FOR 150 YEARS, ROUGHLY FROM 1820 TO 1970 AND IT PRODUCED IN OUR COUNTRY, UNDERSTANDABLY, THE NOTION THAT FOR MANY PEOPLE, PARTICULARLY WHITE ONES, IT WAS UPWARD AND ONWARD, THAT AMERICA WAS A CHARMED PLACED IF YOU WERE RELIGIOUS, YOU MIGHT BELIEVE THAT GOD HAD A SPECIAL PLACE IN HIS HEART FOR THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE IT EXPERIENCED A RISING ECONOMIC WELLBEING FOR MOST OF ITS CITIZENS MOST OF THE TIME AND VERY FEW COUNTRIES COULD REALLY SAY THE SAME.

NOW IN THE 1970S, THAT STOPPED, I KNOW THAT IS HARD TO HEAR BUT IT IS THE TRUTH.

THE WAGES OF AMERICANS AND BY THAT I MEAN HOW MUCH MONEY YOU GET, ADJUSTED FOR THE PRICES YOU HAVE TO PAY WHEN YOU SPEND THAT MONEY, ON TERMS OF WHAT YOUR WAGE MEANS, IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD.

THE REAL WAGE OF THE UNITED STATES STOPPED GOING UP AFTER THE 1970S AND IT HAS BEEN MOSTLY FLAT.

WE CALL THAT STAGNATION EVER SINCE AND THE ONLY REASON AMERICANS DIDN'T FEEL AND DEBATE AND DISCUSS THIS EXTRAORDINARY CHANGE IN THEIR WELLBEING AND THEIR GOOD FORTUNE WAS BECAUSE WE HAD A WAY TO CONTINUE THE BOOM AFTER WE COULDN'T AFFORD THE BOOM AND THAT WAY WAS GOING INTO DEBT.

INDIVIDUALS BORROWING MONEY, CORPORATIONS BORROWING MONEY AND GOVERNMENTS BORROWING MONEY, SO THAT I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT OUR ECONOMY TODAY IS THAT WE ARE MORE DEEPLY IN DEBT THAN THIS COUNTRY HAS EVER BEEN AND THAT THAT IS NOT A SIGN OF ECONOMIC HEALTH, IT IS A SIGN OF ECONOMIC PROBLEM AS IT WOULD BE FOR YOU IF YOU WERE AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF DEBT YOU HAD EVER EXPERIENCED IN YOUR LIFE.

THAT IS THE FIRST THING, HERE IS THE SECOND ONE.

WE ARE NOW IN AN ABSOLUTELY UNIQUE SITUATION, I DO WANT TO GET YOU TO BE SYMPATHETIC ABOUT US BECAUSE IT HELPS BEING HONEST ABOUT WHERE WE ARE.

IN THE PAST WE HAD HAD ECONOMIC DOWN TURNS, THE GREAT DEPRESSION OF THE 1930S AND IN THE PAST WE HAVE HAD PUBLIC HEALTH CRISES THE SO-CALLED SPANISH FLU AT THE END OF WORLD WAR I KILLED MORE PEOPLE AS A PERCENTAGE OF OUR POPULATION THAN COVID HAS EVEN NOW.

BUT WHAT WE HAVE NEVER HAD IS THE COMBINATION AT THE SAME TIME IN OUR SOCIETY OF BOTH AN ECONOMIC CRASH, AMONG THE WORST IN OUR HISTORY, AND A PUBLIC HEALTH DISASTER LIKEWISE AMONG THE WORST IN OUR HISTORY, HAVING THOSE TWO THINGS TOGETHER HAS PRODUCED A DYSFUNCTION, AN UPSET, AN ANGER, DIVISIVENESS IN OUR SOCIETY.

YEAH, IT WAS BUILDING ALREADY BEFORE THAT BUT WE ARE FACING UNBELIEVABLE STRESSES AND STRAINS.

LET ME END THIS BRIEF INTRODUCTION BY SHOWING YOU TWO OR THREE MORE THINGS YOU KNOW ABOUT BUT NOW HAVE TO SEE IN THIS FRAMEWORK.

NO SOCIETY IN ITS RIGHT MIND WOULD SUBJECT ITS PEOPLE TO THE KIND OF TRAUMA WE HAVE GONE THROUGH, FAMILIES WHO CAN'T SEND THEIR KIDS TO SCHOOL BECAUSE IT IS TOO DANGEROUS, WHO CAN'T GO TO WORK BECAUSE IT IS TOO DANGEROUS OR BECAUSE THE JOB IS SHUT DOWN OR CLOSED, WE HAVE JUST GONE THROUGH TWO YEARS OF ENORMOUS PHYSICAL, MENTAL STRESS AND STRAIN.

NO SOCIETY WOULD COME OUT OF THAT AND DO WHAT WE ARE NOW DOING WHICH IS SUBJECTING OUR PEOPLE TO AN INFLATION.

IF YOU HAVE GONE TO THE SUPERMARKET RECENTLY OR A DEPARTMENT STORE YOU HAVE SEEN YOU DON'T NEED ME TO TELL YOU WHAT THE COST OF GASOLINE HAS BECOME, HEATING OIL, HAMBURGERS, YOU NAME IT, EVERYWHERE, THIS IS HURTING THE STANDARD OF LIVING FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE GONE THROUGH SOMETHING TERRIBLE, NOW TO BE CONFRONTED WITH PRICES RISING.

AND BY THE WAY, RISING SIGNIFICANTLY FASTER THAN WAGES ARE RISING SO WE ARE ALL FALLING BEHIND, IT'S TOO MUCH AND IF YOU HAVE NOTICED THAT THE LEVEL OF ACRIMONY AND HOSTILITY AND BITTERNESS BETWEEN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, BETWEEN THIS REGION OF THE COUNTRY AND THAT ONE, THIS IS THE REFLECTION OF AN ECONOMY IN EXTRAORDINARY DIFFICULTY.

LAST POINT, ON TOP OF ALL OF THIS FOR THE FIRST TIME IN A CENTURY THE UNITED STATES HAS A REAL SERIOUS ECONOMIC COMPETITOR, WE HAVE NOT HAD THAT.

WE DEFEATED THE BRITISH, WE DEFEATED THE GERMANS AND WE DEFEATED THE JAPANESE, THEY MIGHT HAVE BECOME BUT THEY NEVER QUITE MADE IT TO BEING THE GREAT COMPETITOR.

AND THE SOVIET UNION WHICH WAS A POLITICAL ADVERSARY AND SO ON, WAS NEVER EVEN IN THE RUNNING TO BE AN ECONOMIC EQUAL LET ALONE COMPETITOR, BUT NOW WE HAVE ONE.

IT IS THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA AND AMERICANS ARE HAVING A VERY HARD TIME GETTING BEYOND DENIAL WHICH IS NOT A SERIOUS WAY TO DEAL WITH REAL PROBLEMS, IF WE ARE NOT CAREFUL, WE ARE GOING TO BE THE DECLINING EMPIRE THAT DOES SOMETHING FOOLISH TRYING TO REVERSE THE TREND OF HISTORY.

REMEMBER THE BRITISH MADE US HAVE A REVOLUTION TO GET SEPARATE FROM THEM AND A FEW YEARS AFTER THE REVOLUTION, WE HAD TO HAVE A SECOND WAR BECAUSE THE BRITISH IN THE WAR OF 1812 WANTED TO UNDO THE REVOLUTION WE HAD ACHIEVED AND IT DIDN'T HELP THEM THEY LOST THE REVOLUTION, THEY LOST THE WAR.

THE UNITED STATES HAS A PROBLEM COMING TO TERMS WITH AN ECONOMY AS POWERFUL AS THE CHINESE.

IF YOU PUT ALL THIS TOGETHER, I AM AFRAID I HAVE TO TELL YOU WE HAVE ENORMOUS PROBLEMS MADE WORSE BY THE COMMITMENT OF OUR POLITICAL LEADERS TO BLAME EACH OTHER FOR EVERYTHING AND SOLVE NOTHING.

>>LORENE: WELL, THAT WAS QUITE A SUMMARY.

IT IS DAUNTING, A DAUNTING PROSPECT, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU A COUPLE OF DETAILS ABOUT THAT.

AND THEN WE CANNOT LEAVE TODAY WITHOUT SUGGESTIONS FOR WHAT WE CAN DO.

>>RICHARD: ABSOLUTELY.

>>LORENE: AND HOW WE CAN GET MORE INFORMATION.

SO IT TURNS OUT THAT IN THE LAST HALF OF LAST YEAR OVER 20 MILLION WORKERS QUIT AND THEY QUIT INDUSTRIES LIKE RETAIL AND HOSPITALITY AND CONSTRUCTION, AND THEY CALL IT THE BIG QUIT OR THE GREAT RESIGNATION, WHAT IS THAT A MANIFESTATION OF?

>>RICHARD: WELL ON THE ONE HAND, THE SIMPLE ANSWER IS EVERYTHING I JUST TOLD YOU.

PEOPLE ARE VERY UPSET, PEOPLE ARE VERY UNEASY ABOUT WHERE THINGS ARE GOING, BUT THERE IS AN ADDITIONAL COUPLE OF REASONS I THINK WILL INTEREST PEOPLE.

YOU KNOW, THE UNEMPLOYMENT WE SUFFERED IN THE LAST TWO YEARS I DON'T THINK IS ADEQUATELY APPRECIATED.

OVER 80 MILLION AMERICAN WORKERS, 80, WERE UNEMPLOYED FOR SOME TIME OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS.

SOME OF THEM ONLY A FEW WEEKS, OTHERS OF THEM THE WHOLE TIME AND MOST OF US SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN.

NOW 80 MILLION IS MORE THAN HALF OF THE ENTIRE LABOR FORCE OF THE UNITED STATES, WHICH MEANS REALLY NO FAMILY ESCAPED IF YOU WERE LUCKY NO ONE PERHAPS IN YOUR IMMEDIATE FAMILY ESCAPED THIS EXPERIENCE BUT CERTAINLY IF YOU START LOOKING AT YOUR UNCLES AND AUNTS AND COUSINS AND ALL OF THAT, YOU WILL FIND PLENTY OF PEOPLE WHO SUFFERED LAST YEAR LOSSES OF INCOME AND SO ON.

WHILE THE BUSINESSES WERE SHUT DOWN WHERE MORE THAN ONE OUT OF TWO OF US WERE UNEMPLOYED FOR A PERIOD OF TIME, WHAT WE NEED TO REMEMBER IS THAT THE EMPLOYER IN THE LOGIC OF OUR CAPITALIST SYSTEM WASN'T JUST SITTING THERE WATCHING TV, THE EMPLOYER WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT AM I GOING TO DO TO RECOUP THE PROFITS I AM NOT GETTING BECAUSE MY BUSINESS IS SHUT DOWN, THAT THREATENS MY SURVIVAL IN THIS RESTAURANT OR IN THIS FACTORY OR IN THIS OFFICE OR IN THIS STORE.

SO WHAT THE EMPLOYERS DID WAS TO TAKE STEPS THAT MAY HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT IN THE PAST, THEY HAD PERHAPS POSTPONED, THEY HADN'T LOOKED AT HARD ENOUGH TO TRY TO BE MORE PROFITABLE ONCE BUSINESS RESUMED TO MAKE UP FOR WHAT THEY LOST.

SO HERE I AM GOING TO GIVE YOU A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES.

WHERE BEFORE I HAD HIRED FOUR PEOPLE IN THIS DEPARTMENT TO DO THIS JOB, I HAVE BOUGHT A MACHINE OR I HAVE REARRANGED THINGS AND I AM BRINGING BACK THREE PEOPLE, I AM OFFERING THEM THE SAME WAGE MAYBE EVEN A LITTLE BIT MORE, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS, WITHIN A FEW DAYS THESE PEOPLE DISCOVER THAT THEY GOT THEIR JOB BACK BUT THEY DIDN'T GET THE SAME JOB BACK.

THEY GOT A MUCH HARDER JOB BACK AND THEY ARE NOT GETTING ANY MORE MONEY OR CERTAINLY NOT ENOUGH AND THEY GOT ANGRY, BECAUSE EVERYBODY IS ON EDGE IN A SYSTEM THAT USED TO BE GOING UP AND IS NOW NOT DOING THAT ANYMORE AND THAT ANGER TOOK THE FORM OF THIS GREAT RESIGNATION, THIS QUITTING EVEN IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANOTHER JOB TO GO TO AND EVEN IF YOU DO AMERICANS ARE BEGINNING TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE EMPLOYER YOU GO TO IS UNDER THE SAME PRESSURES THAT THE EMPLOYER YOU LEFT AND, THEREFORE, YOU ARE GOING TO GET THE SAME EXPERIENCE, SLIGHT VARIATIONS.

I THINK UNTIL WE RESET OUR ECONOMIC SYSTEM, WE ARE GOING TO SEE GREAT RESIGNATIONS, GREAT QUITTING AND WE ARE GOING TO SEE A LOT MORE LABOR MILITANCY, YOU KNOW WE HAVEN'T HAD THESE STRIKES THIS YEAR, JOHN DEERE, KELLOGG, NABISCO, THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA SYSTEM, I RECENTLY WORKED WITH STUDENTS AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY THAT WERE ON STRIKE.

YOU'RE GOING TO SEE MORE AND MORE TURMOIL BECAUSE THE LEVEL OF TENSION, DIFFICULTY AND STRESS IS WHY I TOLD THE STORY AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS PROGRAM.

>>LORENE: SO WE ARE SPEAKING TODAY WITH DR. RICHARD D. WOLFF, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS AND ITS QUITE A TABLEAU YOU HAVE SET OUT FOR US.

WHAT I AM WONDERING IS, IS THE RESET POSSIBLE, IS A PEACEFUL, INTELLIGENT RESET POSSIBLE, HISTORY DOESN'T SORT OF INDICATE THAT THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE DO IN THIS SITUATION.

BUT WHAT ARE OUR OPTIONS, WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT THIS, KNOWING ABOUT IT IS A HUGE STEP FORWARD, BUT HOW HAVE OTHER CULTURES AND CIVILIZATIONS AND ECONOMIES DEALT WITH THIS IN THE PAST AND IS THERE A WISE PATH FORWARD FOR AMERICA AT THIS POINT?

>>RICHARD: I THINK WE CAN RESCUE THE SITUATION, I CERTAINLY HOPE THAT WE CAN AND I HAVE TRIED TO ANSWER YOUR VERY, VERY APPROPRIATE AND VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION BY COMING UP WITH ONE INTERNATIONAL AND ONE DOMESTIC THING WE NEED TO DO.

IT IS A BIG STEP BUT WE ARE NOW IN SUCH A PRECARIOUS SITUATION THAT THE OPPORTUNITY FOR LITTLE STEPS IS PRETTY MUCH BEHIND US, OUR PROBLEMS ARE SIMPLY TOO BIG AND A BAND AID IF YOU HAVE GOT A MAJOR WOUND IS JUST NOT ENOUGH AND YOU HAVE TO FACE THAT.

LET ME BEGIN INTERNATIONALLY, I WANT TO GO BACK HERE A LITTLE BIT TO THAT STORY I TOLD YOU ABOUT THE UNITED STATES REFUSING TO CONTINUE TO BE A COLONY OF GREAT BRITAIN, WHICH IS HOW WE BEGAN.

AND SO WE HAD A REVOLUTION, WE WON'T BE, WE WILL NO LONGER RECOGNIZE GEORGE THE THIRD AS OUR KING, IN FACT WE ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE ANY KINGS, WE ARE NOT DOING KING ANYMORE, NO MORE MONARCHY.

WE ARE HAVING A PARLIAMENT, WE ARE HAVING A DIFFERENT SYSTEM AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE TOLD WHAT TO DO ABOUT ANYTHING FROM LONDON, FROM GREAT BRITAIN.

OKAY, AND WE HAD TO FIGHT TWO WARS, THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR AND THEN THE WAR OF 1812.

NOW I DON'T WANT TO HAVE WAR WITH CHINA, LORD HELP US, THAT IS THE LAST THING I WANT US TO SEE, BUT I DO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT ONCE THE BRITISH WERE DEFEATED TWICE, THEY KIND OF FIGURED OUT THE ATTEMPT TO REESTABLISH THE DOMINANCE OF THE BRITISH EMPIRE ISN'T GOING TO WORK AND SO, GUESS WHAT, THEY CAME TO TERMS WITH THE UNITED STATES TO THE POINT WHERE TODAY IF YOU LISTEN TO THE PRIME MINISTER OF ENGLAND OR YOU LISTEN TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, WE ARE THE CLOSEST IMAGINABLE ALLIES, WE TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER, WE HAVE EACH OTHER'S BACK, ALL THE REST OF IT.

SO WE IN OUR HISTORY DEMONSTRATE THAT ADVERSARIES WHO WENT TO WAR TWICE IN THE DANGER OF AN OLD EMPIRE HAVING TO GIVE UP TO WHAT THE NEW KID ON THE BLOCK WAS ABLE TO DO, AND YOU KNOW NOW DAYS, THE ROLES ARE QUITE REVERSED, THE UNITED STATES IS THE ECONOMIC POWER HOUSE, BRITAIN IS A JUNIOR PARTNER AND I AM BEING AS POLITE AS I POSSIBLY CAN.

WELL, HERE IS MY REALITY, I WOULD LIKE US TO LEARN FROM HISTORY, LET'S NOT HAVE A WAR WITH CHINA, IT IS AN INSANITY.

THESE ARE TWO COUNTRIES THAT ARE BOTH POSSESSED WITH NUCLEAR WEAPONS THAT CAN DESTROY THE WHOLE PLANET MORE THAN ONCE OVER, I WANT TO REMIND AMERICANS IN CASE THEY'VE FORGOTTEN THAT THE CHINESE HAVE FOUR TIMES THE POPULATION OF THE UNITED STATES, THEY ARE A MUCH LARGER COUNTRY AND FOR THE LAST 25 YEARS THEIR ECONOMY HAS GROWN ON AVERAGE THREE TIMES FASTER THAN THAT OF THE UNITED STATES.

SHORT OF OBLITERATING THE COUNTRY, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO STOP THIS, SO YOU MIGHT AS WELL SIT DOWN AND SEE IF YOU CAN WORK OUT A WAY TO TRADE WITH EACH OTHER, TO SHARE IN YOUR BREAKTHROUGHS TECHNOLOGICALLY AND TO TRY TO GET ALONG TOGETHER RATHER THAN KEEP BUMPING HEADS WHICH IS A DISASTER WAITING TO HAPPEN.

ON THE DOMESTIC SIDE, HERE IS MY PROPOSAL AND I THINK IT WOULD SOLVE MANY OF OUR PROBLEMS AND I UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS A BIG STEP.

IT STARTS FROM THE NOTION OF DEMOCRACY, AS A NATION WE SEEM TO BE COMMITTED DISPITE THE EVENTS OF JANUARY 6 AND SO FORTH LAST YEAR, WE SEEMED TO BE COMMITTED TO DEMOCRACY, THAT IS MOST AMERICANS, IF ASKED, WILL SAY THAT THEY THINK EVERYBODY HAVING A SAY, AN EQUAL SAY, IN MAKING THE BIG DECISIONS OF OUR COMMUNITIES IS THE WAY TO GO.

WE DON'T WANT AUTOCRACY, WE DON'T WANT A KING, WE DON'T WANT A DICTATOR, WE DON'T WANT ALL THAT.

OKAY, HERE'S THEN A PROPOSAL, THAT WE BRING DEMOCRACY, SOMETHING AMERICANS BELIEVE IN, TO THE WORK PLACE, RIGHT INSIDE, INSIDE THE OFFICE, INSIDE THE STORE, INSIDE THE FACTORY, THAT WE RUN OUR BUSINESSES DEMOCRATICALLY.

EVERYBODY INVOLVED IN THE BUSINESS, ONE PERSON, ONE VOTE, AND WE DECIDE TOGETHER WHAT TO PRODUCE, WHAT TECHNOLOGY TO USE, WHERE TO CARRY OUT THE PRODUCTION AND HERE COMES THE BIG ONE, HOW TO DIVIDE UP THE PROFIT OR THE REVENUE THAT OUR COLLECTIVE LABOR PRODUCES.

IF WE DID THAT, WE WOULD OF COURSE, HAVE A DIFFERENT COUNTRY, WE WOULDN'T BE GIVING A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, YOU KNOW, TO BE BLUNT, THE ELON MUSKS, THE JEFF BEZOS AND THE OTHERS, WHILE A VAST NUMBER OF PEOPLE CAN'T PUT THEIR KIDS THROUGH COLLEGE, WE ARE NOT GOING TO DO THAT.

DEMOCRATICALLY, THIS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN, WE WILL DIVIDE UP, SOME PEOPLE MAY GET MORE THAN OTHERS FOR ALL KINDS OF REASONS, BUT WE WOULD NEVER HAVE THE INEQUALITY THAT WE HAVE NOW, THE KIND OF BITTERNESS THAT GOES WITH IT.

SO IN MY JUDGEMENT AND IF I HAD MORE TIME, I WOULD SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU, BUT THAT IS THE KIND OF DOMESTIC DIRECTION COUPLED WITH A DIFFERENT FOREIGN POLICY THAT I THINK, BIG AS THESE STEPS ARE, ARE WHAT THE SITUATION CALLS FOR AND I DON'T MEAN TO SCARE ANYONE BUT I AM SCARED OF WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF WE DON'T TAKE BIG STEPS LIKE THAT.

>>LORENE: YOU KNOW WE ONLY HAVE FOUR MINUTES LEFT, AND I AM REALLY APPRECIATIVE, WE ARE OBVIOUSLY GOING TO HAVE TO PICK THIS UP AGAIN ANOTHER TIME, BECAUSE THERE IS MORE THAT I WANT TO HEAR ABOUT BUT CAN YOU GIVE US A WRAP UP.

WHAT WE SHOULD LOOK FOR, WHAT WE CAN DO, WHERE WE CAN GET MORE INFORMATION.

YOU HAVE GIVEN PEOPLE A LOT TO THINK ABOUT.

>>RICHARD: YEAH, WELL WE COLLECT AND WE PRODUCE, THOSE OF US, THAT I HAVE A TEAM OF ABOUT A DOZEN PEOPLE THAT WORK WITH ME NOW AND WE PRODUCE A WEBSITE AVAILABLE TO ANYONE WHO WANTS MORE INFORMATION, DOCUMENTS, VIDEOS, FILMS, BOOKS, PODCASTS, WE DO ALL OF THAT, AS I SAY, WE HAVE GROWN BECAUSE OF THE INTEREST IN OUR WORK.

SO THE MOST IMPORTANT THING I CAN SAY TO YOU ALL, GO TO OUR WEBSITE.

I AM GOING TO GIVE IT TO YOU NOW BUT IT IS THE BEST PLACE AT YOUR LEISURE, AT NO COST TO YOU WHATSOEVER, IT'S CALLED DEMOCRACY AT WORK, JUST THE VERY POINT I HAVE BEEN MAKING.

DEMOCRACYATWORK.INFO.

GO THERE AND FROM THERE YOU CAN EXPLORE, LITERALLY YOU WILL NEED A LOT OF TIME TO WORK YOUR WAY THROUGH.

WE ADD MATERIAL THERE EVERY SINGLE DAY, WE DRAW ON THAT MATERIAL TO PRODUCE OUR WEEKLY RADIO AND TELEVISION SHOW "ECONOMIC UPDATE."

WE PUBLISH BOOKS, LIKE THE ONE THAT YOU SHOWED SO NICELY AND KINDLY AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SHOW.

SO IT IS A WAY FOR YOU TO GET A GREAT DEAL MORE INFORMATION AND ALSO TO INTERACT AND PARTNER WITH US TO GIVE US YOUR THOUGHTS, CRITICISMS, WHICH WE ARE SERIOUSLY ENGAGED IN DOING.

WE ARE AN AMERICAN PRODUCT DESIGNED TO FACE, WITHOUT DENIAL, THE LEVEL OF DIFFICULTIES WE HAVE.

SO WHAT I DO AND I KNOW THAT THIS IS CONTROVERSIAL, IS I WATCH RADIO AND TELEVISION AND FRANKLY, I AM DISTRAUGHT AT THE LACK OF INFORMATION, THE LACK OF ANALYSIS, THE LOW LEVEL OF ECONOMIC LITERACY AND SO MUCH OF WHAT WE DO IS DESIGNED TO COMPENSATE FOR ALL OF THAT, TO PROVIDE THE ANALYSIS THAT I THINK ALL OF YOU, LISTENING AND WATCHING, WILL FIND USEFUL IN ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS OF HOW THE ECONOMY IMPACTS YOUR LIFE.

>>LORENE: WELL VERY PROVOCATIVE, THOUGHT PROVOKING, I HAVE WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT THIS FOR SO LONG, LET'S GET TOGETHER AGAIN, ANOTHER TIME BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME OTHER THINGS, I NEED TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT WHETHER YOU FEEL THAT A DEMOCRACY IS UNDER THREAT LIKE SO MANY OTHER PEOPLE DO BECAUSE THE TITLE OF YOUR PROJECT, YOUR NONPROFIT, IS "DEMOCRACY AT WORK."

THE OTHER ONE WE NEED TO HAVE A WONDERFUL BROADCAST CALLED "THE GAME IS RIGGED."

WAS REALLY, REALLY EYE OPENING TO ME.

BUT I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU FOR SHARING THIS PERSPECTIVE AND THIS SLICE OF THE ECONOMIC PIE FOR US, WE HAVE A LOT TO THINK ABOUT.

HOW ABOUT ONE LAST SENTENCE FOR OUR AUDIENCE TO ENCOURAGE US.

>>RICHARD: WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS THIS COUNTRY NEEDS IS THE KIND OF PROGRAM YOU ARE PRODUCING.

YOU ARE NOT DENYING IT, YOU ARE NOT REFUSING TO FACE IT YOU'RE NOT LOOKING AT EVERYTHING THROUGH ROSE COLORED GLASSES.

YOU ARE WILLING TO HAVE THE REALITY PUT THAT OUT AND THAT IS A MORE IMPORTANT PUBLIC SERVICE THAN ANYTHING ELSE I CAN THINK OF, SO LET ME THANK YOU FOR DOING WHAT YOU ARE DOING BECAUSE IT IS A REAL CONTRIBUTION.

>>LORENE: WELL, BACK AT YOU.

OUR GUEST TODAY IS RICHARD D. WOLFF, A PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS AND A WRITER, AND REALLY KIND OF A CULT FIGURE WITH ALL HIS RADIO BROADCASTS AND ECONOMIC UPDATES.

SO I REALLY WANT TO THANK YOU FOR COMING AND GIVING US THIS INTRO TO A PERSPECTIVE ON THE ECONOMY THAT IS REALLY VALUABLE AND I THINK IT IS GOING TO TURN A LOT OF PEOPLE'S HEADS AROUND.

THANK YOU DR. WOLFF FOR JOINING US.

>>RICHARD: MY PLEASURE, THANK YOU AND LET'S INDEED DO IT AGAIN.

>>LORENE: OKAY AND I AM LORENE MILLS, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO