Here & Now for February 24, 2023

>> Frederica: RECORD TURNOUT IN THE SPRING PRIMARY SELECTS TWO GENERAL ELECTION CANDIDATES FOR STATE SUPREME COURT.

DANGEROUS WINTER WEATHER STRIKES THE STRAIGHT YET AGAIN.

RECENT INCIDENTS SEND A WARNING THAT ANTI-SEMITISM IS ALIVE AND WELL AND FLAGS FLY AT HALF STAFF OVER THE STATE CAPITOL IN HONOR OF TONY EARL.

I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.

A FORMER SUPREME COURT JUSTICE GIVES HER TAKE AND ANTI-SEMITIC ACTS INCREASE AND PHYSICIANS SAY PATIENT CARE WILL SUFFER IF MEDICARE PAYMENTS WON'T IMPROVE.

IT'S "HERE & NOW" FOR FEBRUARY 24, 2023.

>> THIS IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY FRIENDS OF PBS WISCONSIN.

>> Frederica: FOLLOWING TUESDAY'S PRIMARY ELECTION, TWO CANDIDATES FOR THE WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT HEAD INTO CAMPAIGNING FOR THE GENERAL ELECTION SET FOR APRIL 4.

MILWAUKEE COUNTY CIRCUIT JUDGE WON 45% AND DANNY KELLY GARNERED 24.2%.

THEY EACH SPOKE AT THE ELECTION NIGHT PARTIES FOCUSSING ON THE TOPICS AND LIKELY TO COME BEFORE THE COURT, ABORTION.

>> I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW I'LL RULE IN ANY CASE BUT THROUGHOUT THIS CASE I HAVE BEEN ABSOLUTELY CLEAR ABOUT WHAT MY VALUES ARE.

AND THAT'S BECAUSE I BELIEVE THE VOTERS OF THIS STATE DESERVE TO KNOW WHAT A CANDIDATE'S VALUES ARE.

I VALUE A WOMAN'S FREEDOM TO MAKE HER OWN REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH CARE DECISIONS.

>> IT'S GOING TO BE AN ELECTION LIKE NO OTHER.

TONIGHT WE JOIN THE FIGHT TO PRESERVE OUR CONSTITUTIONAT FORMS OF GOVERNMENT AGAINST A NOVEL AND GRAVE THREAT.

THE PROMISE TO SET ASIDE OUR LAW AND OUR CONSTITUTION WHETHER THEY CONFLICT WITH HER PERSONAL VALUES CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO STAND.

>> Frederica: THY THE HIGH STAKE RACE GETS MORE ATTENTION FROM HERE.

WE TURN TO SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER ZAC SCHULTZ WHO JOINS US FROM THE STATE CAPITOL WITH MORE.

WAS THIS THE PRIMARY ELECTION OUTCOME EXPECTED?

>> I DON'T THINK YOU CAN BE TOO SURPRISED.

CERTAINLY NOT ON THE LIBERAL SIDE.

JANET HAD THE MOST MONEY AND FIRST COMMERCIAL AND CONSOLIDATED A LOT OF DEMOCRATIC SUPPORT AROUND HER CAMPAIGN EARLY ON.

THE OTHER LIBERAL JUDGE EVERETT MITCHELL TRIED HARD TO GET SUPPORT AND HAD A FEW PEOPLE BUT NEVER HAD THE MONEY TO GET HIS NAME OUT THERE.

SEEING JANET ADVANCE IS NOT SURPRISING.

MAYBE THE MARGINS FOR SOME MAY HAVE BEEN SURPRISING.

ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE WE KNEW IT WOULD BE A CLOSE MARGIN.

AND IT GOES AGAINST YOUR CONVENTIONAL THINKING BUT THE OUTCOME MAY FIT THOUGH JENNIFER DOROW MAY HAVE BEEN PREFERRED AHEAD OF TIME AND WE SAW OUTSIDE INTEREST GROUPS AND OTHERS TRY TO TAKE HER DOWN AND GETTING THE SAME RESULT OF ADVANCING DANIEL KELLY BECAUSE HE WANTED TO WIN.

ON THE LIBERALS' PART BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT HE WOULD BE A BETTER MATCH-UP IN THE GENERAL ELECTION.

THIS OUTCOME IS NOT TERRIBLY SURPRISING AND THE MARGIN IS SO NARROW IT CAME DOWN TO THE END.

>> Frederica: TUESDAY'S ELECTION SAW RECORD TURNOUT FOR SUPREME COURT PRIMARY.

WHAT DID IT LOOK LIKE ACROSS THE STATE?

>> IT VARIED ACROSS THE REGIONS.

IN SOME PARTS OF THE SOUTHERN MORE POPULOUS AREAS THERE WAS HIGH TURNOUT IN THE NORTHWEST CORNER LOWER TURNOUT AND SOME FITS WITH THE THINK HOW THE CAMPAIGNS WORK.

WE'RE TALKING FEBRUARY 21, MIDDLE OF WINTER.

GENERALLY THERE'S NOT A LOT OF ATTENTION PAID AND IT'S DRIVEN BY ADVERTISING.

HOW MUCH DID PEOPLE EVEN KNOW THAT ONE, THERE WAS AN ELECTION, AND TWO, IT WAS THIS IMPORTANT.

IT'S HARDER TO PENETRATE NORTHERN WISCONSIN WITH ADVERTISING DOLL THE WAY YOU CAN BLANKET SOUTHEAST WISCONSIN AND OTHER COUNTIES.

AND IN MADISON YOU HAD A CONTESTED MAYORAL PRIMARY.

N NORTHERN MILWAUKEE YOU HAD A CONTESTED PRIMARY REPUBLICAN SIDE FOR A SPECIAL ELECTION IN A SENATE DISTRICT.

ALL THOSE THINGS ARE DROVE TURNOUT IN MORE POPULOUS REGIONS.

>> Frederica: DID ANYTHING STAND OUT IN PARTISAN VOTING PATTERNS?

>> THERE'S A SPLIT ACROSS THE STATE IN REPUBLICAN VOTING TRENDS.

WE'VE SEEN THIS TIME AND TIME AGAIN OVER THE PAST 10 TO 15 YEARS WHERE SOUTHEASTERN WISCONSIN ESPECIALLY WHERE SOUTHEAST WISCONSIN TALK RADIO DOMINATES HAS A DIFFERENT OPINION WHO NAY THEY FAVOR IN A PRIMARY VERSUS OUTSIDE RURAL WISCONSIN AND USED TO BE SOUTHEAST WISCONSIN WAS ENOUGH TO DOMINATE.

THAT'S HOW SCOTT WALKER WON TO BECOME THE GOVERNOR AND HOW REBECCA CLAYFISH BECAME GOVERNOR AND IT'S SHIFTED AND BEEN PLAYING OUT MORE AND MORE THE REST OF THE STATE, OUTSTATED RURAL WISCONSIN FOR REPUBLICANS CAN OUTNUMBER SOUTHEASTERN WISCONSIN.

WE SAW JENNIFER DOROW'S AREA OF SUPPORT WAS STRONG BUT WAS BEAT HANDILY IN THE REST OF THE STATE AND WON BY A COUPLE PERCENTAGE POINTS.

>> Frederica: FORMER JUSTICE LOST HIS LOST ELECTION FOR SUPREME COURT.

IS HE VULNERABLE HERE?

>> DEMOCRATS CERTAINLY THINK SO.

THAT'S WHAT THEY WANTED TO SEE.

BUT IN REALITY WE'VE SEEN LOTS OF CANDIDATES HISTORICALLY ACROSS WISCONSIN RUN AFTER LOSING AN ELECTION AND TRY AGAIN.

THE MESSAGE THAT MAY OR MAY NOT WIN THE SECOND TIME IS NOT THAT THEY LOST AN ELECTION BUT PEOPLE KNOW WHAT THEIR VULNERABILITIES ARE BECAUSE THEY POLLED AGAINST HIM IN THE PAST.

IN THIS CASE DANIEL KELLY WILL SAY HE LOST BECAUSE BERNIE SANDERS AND JOE BIDEN HAD A CONTESTED PRIMARY AND DONALD TRUMP WASN'T CONTEST AND SAYS HATS THE MAJORITY OF THE MARGIN.

THIS IS A DIFFERENT RATE.

WE SHOULDN'T LOOK AT THAT AS THE ROAD MAP BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE SAME CIRCUMSTANCES.

>> Frederica: IS THERE THE SAME INFIGHTING IN THE PARTY BETWEEN DOROW AND KELLY?

>> THAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN AND SOMETHING REPUBLICANS ARE WATCHING AND DEMOCRATS WOULD LIKE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IF THEY CAN.

WE SAW A SIMILAR THING PLAY OUT LONG THE SAME LINES LAST SUMMER WHEN TIM MICHAELS WON THE GUBERNATORIAL PRIMARY AND ATTACKING CLAYFISH HEAVILY AND SHE AND HER SUPPORTERS WEREN'T HAPPY AND THERE WASN'T THE UNIFYING MOMENT THAT CAME AFTERWARDS.

THIS TIME WE SAW DANIEL KELLY SAYING HE WOULD NOT SUPPORT JENNIFER DOROW IF SHE WAS THE ONE TO ADVANCE.

HE REFUSED TO ENDORSE HER AND DOROW SAID SHE WOULD ENDORSE KELLY AND SAID REPUBLICANS NEED TO UNIFY BUT THERE ARE SOME SUPPORTERS STILL MIFFED THAT KELLY WOULDN'T SUPPORT THEIR PERSON GOING FORWARD WHETHER THAT FRACTURE MAINTAINS AND EXISTS OR IF REPUBLICAN PARTIES WANT TO MAINTAIN THE APRIL 4 PRIMARY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN FRACTURES THAT EXISTED BEFORE AND SOMETHING TO BE AWARE OF GOING FORWARD.

>> Frederica: SPENDING IN THIS RACE IS EXPECTED TO BE STRATOSPHERIC.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE PROJECTIONS ARE AND WHO'S GIVING?

>> WE'RE LOOKING AT LEAST $20 MILLION TO $40 MILLION AND A LOT OF OUT STATE AND SPECIAL INTEREST MONEY.

>> Frederica: ZAC SCHULTZ THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>>> IT'S SAID WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT ELECTION NON PARTISAN IN NAME ONLY AND SEEMS MORE TRUE NOW THAN EVER.

WHAT DOES A FORMER JUSTICE OF THE HIGH COURT THINK OF THIS TREND?

WE TURN TO JANNINE GESKE.

>> IT'S MY PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

WHAT DO I THINK?

>> Frederica: DO YOU THINK WE'VE COME OUT OF THE GATES OF PARTISAN POLITICS?

>> IT APPEARS THAT WAY FROM ENDORSEMENTS TO THE MONEY BEING PUT IN TO PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT WHAT THEIR VALUES AND THEIR BELIEFS ARE.

AND IT LOOKS LIKE AND TO THE LEFT THAT PEOPLE ARE RUNNING ON ISSUES HOW THEY'RE GOING TO VOTE.

TO ME THAT'S MORE A LEGISLATIVE PARTISAN RACE THAN A SUPREME COURT RACE.

I FIND IT VERY DISTRESSING.

>> Frederica: I WANT TO TALK MORE ABOUT AND REMIND THE VIEWER THERE'S A SUPPORTER OF ABORTION RIGHTS AND SAID THE LEGISLATIVE MAPS ARE RIGGED AND MAINTAINS VOTERS WANT TO KNOW WHERE PEOPLE STAND BUT YOU DON'T THINK SO.

>> THE PROBLEM WITH THAT -- AND I UNDERSTAND.

WE ALL HAVE OUR OWN BELIEFS.

THE PROBLEM IS WHETHER PEOPLE BELIEVE IT'S A SIGNAL HOW SHE'LL VOTE.

THAT'S FINE IF THAT'S YOUR VALUES BUT IF YOU'RE TAKING AN OATH YOU'LL FOLLOW THE LAW REGARDLESS OF OPINION EVEN IF IT'S INCONSISTENT WHAT YOU MIGHT VOTE FOR THAT'S WHAT A JUDGE SHOULD DO.

I THINK BOTH CANDIDATES ARE DOING THAT IN DIFFERENT WAYS OF ING INDICATING OR HINTING WHERE THEY MIGHT VOTE BUT THE ELECTORATE WILL BELIEVE THE ISSUE IS ON THE BALLOT VERSUS CANDIDATE AND WE WANT JUDGE TO LOOK AT EACH CASE INDEPENDENTLY AND WHETHER THEIR SUPPORTERS LIKE IT OR NOT COME TO THE CONCLUSION THEY BELIEVE IS RIGHT.

>> Frederica: FORMER JUSTICE KELLY ISN'T EXACTLY NON PARTISAN.

HE'S WORKED FOR BOTH STATE AND NATIONAL REPUBLICAN PARTIES INCLUDING ADVISING ON THE FAKE ELECTOR SCHEME HERE IN WISCONSIN AND YET HE SAYS THIS VIRTUE SIGNALLING, AS WE'VE DISCUSSED, MAKES THE JUDGE NOT COMMITTED TO THE CONSTITUTIONAL ORDER.

IS THAT -- DO YOU THINK THAT'S FAIR.

>> NO, I THINK BOTH CANDIDATES ARE DOING IT IN DIFFERENT WAYS AND I THINK THERE ARE NOT PEOPLE WHO ARE DOUBTING WHERE JUSTICE KELLY INDICATES HE MIGHT BE ON ISSUES.

HE'S DOING IT IN DIFFERENT WAYS AND SHOWED IN DIFFERENT WAYS HOW HE'S WORKED AND WHO HE'S REPRESENTED AND WHAT ISSUES HE'S TAKEN ON.

I THINK THE QUESTION WE HAVE TO ASK IS IF YOUR LEGAL CONCLUSION COMES TO A DIFFERENT RESULT THAN WHAT YOU'RE ADVOCATING NOW, ARE YOU WILLING TO DO THAT?

IF YOU CAN'T YOU SHOULDN'T SIT THE CASES.

I THINK THEY'RE BOTH GIVING THE FEELING ABOUT WHERE THEY ARE ON ISSUES.

THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT AS LONG AS VOTERS UNDERSTAND THEIR OATH IS TO DECIDE SOMETIMES INCONSISTENTLY WITH WHAT THEY MIGHT BELIEVE.

>> Frederica: DOES IT SEEM LIKE A CHARADE THEN TO SUGGEST NEITHER SIDE WOULD QUOTE, LEGISLATE FROM THE BENCH?

>> I'M NOT DOUBTING THE INTEGRITY OF THE CANDIDATES.

WHAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT IS HOW THE CAMPAIGNS GET SHAPED SO PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ELECTED.

AN EXAMPLE OF THAT WE CAN POINT TO JUSTICE KELLY'S VIEW TO JUSTICE HAGEDORN AND WHEN HE REFERS TO HIM HE TALKS ABOUT HIM NOT BEING TRUSTWORTHY OR RELIABLE BECAUSE HE WASN'T RELIABLY CONSERVATIVE MEANING JUSTICE HAGEDORN CAME TO A DIFFERENT DECISION.

SOME PEOPLE CALL THEM TRAITORS AND PROFOUNDLY DISAPPOINTED ON JUSTICE HAGEDORN ON THE RESULTS OF HIS CASES AND PEOPLE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND YOU HAVE TO DO THAT WHEN YOU'RE A JUDGE AND PEOPLE MAY NOT ALWAYS BE HAPPY WITH THE RESULT.

>> Frederica: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE DAYS OF CANDIDATES FOR THE SUPREME COURT SAYING THEY COULDN'T TALK ABOUT THAT BECAUSE THAT ISSUE MAY COME BEFORE THEM?

IT SOUNDS ALMOST QUAINT TODAY.

>> IT WASN'T QUAINT IT WAS TRUE.

THERE ARE TIMES I PUBLICLY TALKED ABOUT CASES THAT MY VOTE WAS NOT CONSISTENT WITH WHAT I WOULD HAVE DONE IF I WERE VOTING AT THE BALLOT BOX.

THERE ARE TIMES SOMETIMES I WOULD WRITE A CONCURRENCE OR ANOTHER OPINION SAYING I WISH THE LEGISLATURE WOULD LOOK AT THIS AND CHANGE THINGS BUT THIS IS HOW I INTERPRETED IT AS A JUDGE.

THE RISK IS PEOPLE WILL THINK YOU'RE ELECTING PEOPLE ON A DELIVERABLE IS UNFORTUNATE.

I'M ACTUALLY BECOMING AN ADVOCATE FOR APPOINTMENT OF JUDGES.

I THINK WE'VE GONE WAY OVER THE LINE OF TRYING TO ELECT FAIR AND IMPARTIAL JUDGES THAT PEOPLE CAN HAVE CONFIDENCE IN.

>> Frederica: WHAT'S THIS MEAN INCLUDING THE HIGH STAKES, HIGH-SPENDING NATURE OF THIS RACE REPORTEDLY PROJECTED TO BE THE MOST EXPENSIVE JUDICIAL ELECTION IN THE UNITED STATES?

WHAT DOES ALL THIS MEAN FOR THE INTEGRITY IN YOUR MIND OF THE COURT?

>> I THINK IT IMPACTS THE INTEGRITY OF THE COURT AND FAITH PEOPLE HAVE IN THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE JUDICIARY.

IT RIPPLES DOWN TO THE TRIAL COURTS.

IT'S NOT JUST THE SUPREME COURT THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO THINK JUDGE RESPOND TO THEIR SUPPORTERS AND THAT CERTAIN PARTIES WILL WIN BECAUSE OF WHO IS SITTING ON THE BENCH.

THIS IS NOT WHAT THE FOUNDERS WANTED.

I THINK THEY WANTED JUDGE INVOLVED IN THEIR COMMUNITIES AND PEOPLE RESPECTED KNEW AND COMMITTED THEIR LIVES TO PUBLIC SERVICE AND NOW WE HAVE ADS AND THINGS GIVING US THE SENSE WE'RE ELECTING PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO REPRESENT CERTAIN INTERESTS.

>> Frederica: WE LEAVE IT THERE.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR THOUGHTS.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Frederica: IN OTHER STATE NEWS, ANTI-SEMITIC ACTS INCREASED BY MORE THAN 450% ACCORDING TO THE MILWAUKEE JEWISH FEDERATION.

FOR ONE HOLOCAUST HISTORIAN ONE ACT CAME DIRECTLY TO HER DOOR STEP.

HERE'S OUR STUDENT JOURNALIST WITH THE STORY.

>> IN THE MORNING AROUND 8:00 AND I LOOK DOWN AND SEE THIS OBJECT AND PICKED IT UP AND I WAS QUITE HORRIFIED AND SHOCKED.

>> HER SHOCK AND HORROR CAME FROM DISCOVERING AN ANTI-SEMITIC FLYER ON HER HOME IN KENOSHA.

>> DOWN THE STREET TO 75th STREET.

>> THE FLYER CLAIMS JEWISH PEOPLE CAUSED THE COVID-19.

IT WAS IN A PLASTIC BAG AND WEIGHED DOWN BY ROCKS AND A PENNY.

AS A HOLOCAUST HISTORIAN SHE'S USED TO STUDYING ANTI-SEMITISM.

>> I CALLED THE POLICE AND OFFERED THE INFORMATION AND PROVIDED THE PAMPHLET AND SAID THEY ALREADY HAD IT AND WERE INFORMED OF IT.

>> THE KENOSHA POLICE DEPARTMENT WERE ABLE TO FIND THE PERPETRATOR AND FINE HIM JUST OVER $4,000 NOT FOR A HATE CRIME BUT LITTERING.

ANTI-SEMITICS INCREASED BY 450% AND CONSPIRACY THEORIES THAT SPREAD DURING THE COVID-19 CAUSED AN INCREASE IN CASUAL ANTI-SEMITISM.

>> IT'S BECOME SO NORMALIZED AND SO UBIQUITOUS AND PEOPLE ARE COMFORTABLE EXPRESSING THOSE FEELINGS AND THOUGHTS AND ATTITUDES.

>> SHE SAYS AS THE PURPLE STATE, WISCONSIN DEMONSTRATES HOW POLITICAL DIVISIVENESS CAN PERMEATE.

>> IT'S CREATED TUNNELLED VISION TYPE OF THINKING AND HAS MADE IT DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO REACH ACROSS DIVIDES AND SEE EACH OTHER AS HUMAN BEINGS.

>> JEWISH PEOPLE HAVE BEEN VICTIMS OF HATE CRIMES.

>> YOU SEE AN INCREASING RELUCTANCE OF PEOPLE TO CALL OUT ANTI-SEMITISM WITHIN THEIR OWN POLITICAL CAMP.

>> PROFESSOR GOLDBERG SAID ANTI-SEMITISM STANDS OUT FOR SUBTLETY AND PERVASIVENESS AND SAID THERE'S TROPES THAT STILL EXIST IN CULTURE.

>> IN THE MIDDLE AGES JEWS WERE ACCUSED OF POISONING WELLS AND BLAMED FOR THE PLAGUE.

THOSE MOTIFS BECAUSE THEY'D BEEN AROUND A LONG TIME AND STILL CIRCULATE ON SOME LEVEL MAKE JEWS SUITED FOR THE SCAPE GOATS.

>> IT ALIENATES PEOPLE FROM THEIR COMMUNITY.

HER EXPERIENCE IN KENOSHA HAS MADE HER DISTRUSTFUL OF OTHERS.

>> MY FATHER WHO WAS A HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR WARNED ME ANTI-SEMITISM IS ALIVE AND WELL.

IT'S UNDER THE RADAR AND COVERS BUT THERE.

ALWAYS BE CAREFUL.

IT'S GOING TO COME BACK.

>> FOR "HERE & NOW", I'M ADITT FROM KEN OSHA.

>> Frederica: TALK OF CUTTING BACK ON SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE DOCTORS ARE CRYING FOUL HOW PAYMENTS AREN'T KEEPING PACE.

PHYSICIANS HAVE BEEN LOBBYING CONGRESS SAYING PATIENT CARE COULD BE AT RISK.

WE TALK WITH A PHYSICIAN AND CHAIR OF THE BOARD OF THE WISCONSIN SOCIETY THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

DOCTORS HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT HOW MEDICAL REIMBURSEMENT RATES ARE TOO LOW.

WHAT'S THE STATUS?

>> WE'VE HAD PROBLEMS WITH THIS 20, 30 YEARS AND SOMETHING WE'D GO TO CONGRESS AND TALK ABOUT BECAUSE AS WE'LL TALK ABOUT IF OUR PRACTICES RIGHT-HANDS AREN' FUNDED WE WON'T BE AROUND AND WE TALKED ABOUT PAYMENTS AND IT HADN'T CHANGED IN 20, 30 YEARS.

UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S STILL NOT ADEQUATE.

WE'VE BEEN THROUGH A DIFFICULT TIME THE PAST THREE YEARS AND WE'VE HAD PAYMENT CUTS THAT ARE SET TO GO INTO PLACE THIS YEAR ALREADY AND THIS IS WHEN WE'RE ALREADY AT RATES BASICALLY 1980 TYPE OF RATES THAT HAD NOT BEEN ADJUSTED.

LET ALONE ADJUSTED FOR THE INFLATION THAT WE'VE HAD.

IF YOU LOOK AT REAL DOLLARS, PHYSICIANS HAVE ALREADY HAD A 22% CUT IN THE PAST 20 YEARS.

>> Frederica: DESCRIBE HOW THAT AFFECTS PATIENT CARE?

>> THAT ABSOLUTELY AFFECTS PATIENT CARE.

OUR GOAL IS TO HAVE THE PATIENT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE CHOICE AND SEE THE DOCTOR CLOSE TO THEM.

THE DOCTOR THEY CHOOSE.

AND WHAT HAPPENS IS PARTICULARLY IN RURAL AREAS OR UNDER SERVED AREAS WE HAVE DOCTORS' OFFICE WHO'S ARE BASICALLY SMALL BUSINESSES AND THEY HAVE PRIMARILY PATIENTS THAT ARE MEDICARE THAT THE PAYMENT IS UNDER WHAT THEY WOULD GET FOR OTHER TYPES OF INSURANCE PRODUCTS, YOU HAVE CHOICES.

YOU CAN TAKE LESS MEDICARE OR ULTIMATELY SOMETIMES PHYSICIAN HAVE TO CLOSE THEIR PRACTICES.

AND WHEN THEY CLOSE THEIR PRACTICES THEY PROBABLY MOVE TO LESS RURAL AREAS WHERE THEY CAN BE BUSIER AND THAT CHOICE FOR THOSE PATIENTS IS LOST AND WHAT HAPPENS IS THE PATIENT HAS FEWER CHOICES AND OFTEN TIMES THE PATIENT HAS TO DRIVER FURTHER TO GET THE CARE THEY NEED.

>> Frederica: CONGRESS GAVE TENS OF BILLIONS TO PHYSICIANS DURING THE PANDEMIC BUT THAT WAS ALL USED DURING THE TIME?

>> THE PANDEMIC AS WE ALL LEARNED HAS BEEN CHALLENGING.

WITH A LOT OF THE OTHER INCREASES IN PAY THAT WE'VE SEEN FROM THE GOVERNMENT, A LOT OF THAT PAID FOR NEW REQUIREMENTS OR NEW ADMINISTRATIVE BURDENS THEY PUT IN OUR WAY.

REAL DOLLARS AS I SAID BEFORE WE'VE PROBABLY CUT ABOUT 20% AND WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO KEEP A PRACTICE OPEN, WHEN YOU'RE HIRING NURSES AND OFFICE STAFF, IT'S A SMALL BUSINESS, IT'S JUST NOT SUSTAINABLE.

>> Frederica: HOW HARD IS IT TO ENGENDER SYMPATHY FOR HIGHLY PAID PHYSICIANS THOUGH THEY'RE REGARDED AS THE HEALTH CARE HEROES OF THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS?

>> WE CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUT THIS BEING PATIENT OPTIONS.

IF THE PHYSICIAN ISN'T THERE AND THE PHYSICIAN IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE COMMUNITY OBVIOUSLY THEY DELIVER HEALTH WHICH AS WE LEARNED OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS IS INVALUABLE.

IF THE PHYSICIAN AND PRACTICE IS NOT THERE, THE PATIENTS SUFFER AND AREN'T ABLE TO SEE THEIR TRUSTED DOCTOR THEY'VE GOTTEN TO KNOW OVER TIME AND HAVE TO DRIVE FURTHER AND OFTEN TIMES IF YOU MAKE CARE LESS CONVENIENT, CARE DOESN'T HAPPEN.

PEOPLE DON'T GET CARE UNTIL IT'S MORE CATASTROPHIC CARE WHERE LESS IS ABLE TO HAPPEN THAT CAN ARREST IT.

SO WHAT HAPPENS IS ONCE THE PHYSICIANS GO, IF THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS, PATIENTS PAY THE PRICE.

>> Frederica: SO APART FROM THE SPECIFIC LOBBYING EFFORTS AROUND THESE REIMBURSEMENT RATES LIKE NW, WHAT IS THE FEELING AMONG THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY AND THESE PHYSICIANS ABOUT THESE DISCUSSIONS IN WASHINGTON ABOUT CUTTING ENTITLEMENTS AS THEY'RE CALLED LIKE MEDICARE?

>> IT'S AN IMPORTANT WAY FOR PATIENT TO GET GOOD CARE AND WE WANT THEM TO HAVE CHOICES TO GO TO THE HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONAL THEY WANT TO IN A WAY THAT'S CONVENIENT.

WHEN I THINK WITH THE NUMBERS BEING CUT, OBVIOUSLY WE THINK ABOUT THE RATES BEING CUT.

WE THINK ABOUT THE IDEA THAT IT'S GOING TO BE MORE DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE TO GET TREATMENT AND AS WE'VE SEEN PARTICULARLY EARLY ON IN THE PANDEMIC, WHEN PEOPLE PUT TREATMENT OFF, BAD THINGS HAPPEN.

>> Frederica: HOW HAVE LOBBYING EFFORTS BEEN MET BY CONGRESSIONAL MEMBERS PARTICULARLY WISCONSIN?

>> WE VISITED ALL THE OFFICES THAT WERE OPEN TO US.

WE VISITED MOST OFFICES AND EVEN IN A TIME SO CONTENTIOUS AS THIS, THERE'S A LOT OF AGREEMENT.

THERE'S A LOT OF AGREEMENT MEDICARE SHOULD BE HELD SAFE.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE BEING TOLD.

WE'RE BEING TOLD THAT PATIENTS SHOULD CONTINUE TO HAVE CHOICE.

WE'RE BEING TOLD PHYSICIANS SHOULD BE ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF PATIENTS WITH MEDICARE WITHOUT HAVING TO GO OUT OF BUSINESS.

WITHOUT WORRY OF KEEPING THE LIGHTS ON.

WHETHER YOU'RE DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN YOU'RE AGREEING WITH THIS THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE SAYING.

>> Frederica: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Frederica: AND FINALLY TONIGHT WE REMEMBER FORMER GOVERNOR TONY EARL WHO PASSED AWAY THURSDAY AFTER SUFFERING FROM A STROKE EARLIER THIS WEEK.

AS THE 41st GOVERNOR OF WISCONSIN, THE FORMER DEMOCRATIC LEADER LEAVES A LEGACY FOR HIS WORK ON VARIETAL ISSUES AND PROMOT PROMOTING LGBTQ RIGHTS AND HIS PASSING SAY SIGNIFICANT LOSS FOR OUR STATE AND ALL WHO THAT'D FORTUNE OF MEETING AND SERVING WITH HIM.

HE WAS FIRST ELECTED TO THE STATE ASSEMBLY IN 1969 AND SERVED UNTIL 1974.

FOLLOWING HIS TIME IN THE LEGISLATURE, HE WAS A STATE CABINET SECRETARY FOR TWO DEPARTMENTS UNDER THREE DIFFERENT ADMINISTRATIONS.

HE WAS ELECTED GOVERNOR IN 1983 AND SERVED ONE TERM.

AFTER ELECTED OFFICE HE WENT ON TO SERVE ON MANY BOARDS INCLUDING COMMON CAUSE WISCONSIN ON FIRST NATION REFORM.

HIS DAUGHTERS SAID HE'D ENCOURAGE ANYONE HE KNEW TO ENGAGE IN POSITIVE CHANGE.

HE WAS 86.

FOR MORE ON THIS AND OTHER ISSUES FACING WISCONSIN, VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT PBSWISCONSIN.org AND CLICK ON THE NEWS TAB.

THAT'S OUR NEWS FOR TONIGHT.

I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.

HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND.