>> The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

2024 Election Coverage Wisconsin State motto is forward.

Less than a month away from the election, Democratic incumbent a tight race for U.S. Senate against her Republican challenger, Eric Hovde.

But both candidates can still make appeals to voters in their first and only televised debate.

I'm Frederica Freyberg tonight on "Here& Now" ahead of next week's debate between the Wisconsin candidates for U.S. Senate.

We get a preview of their backgrounds and platforms and a look at the blurred lines between political rhetoric and political violence.

Then we report on one group frequently left out of the conversation about Medicaid expansion.

And finally, the top issues for Wisconsin's largest voting block people over 50.

It's "Here& Now" for October 11th.

provided by the Focus Fund for journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

>> Candidates for the U.S. Senate in Wisconsin square off in a statewide debate.

A week from tonight, incumbent Democrat Tammy Baldwin and Republican Eric Hovde appear on the televised debate Friday, October 18th at 7 p.m. You can watch that here.

And then join right after for "Here& Now" for highlights and analysis tonight.

Reporter Steven Potter tells us about the candidates and where they stand.

>> We need to put on the red, white and blue jersey.

I love my country and come together as Americans.

I believe in this country and what our Constitution stands for and what it's provided the people of this country.

And hey, Wisconsin, it's really important to me that Wisconsin working families have somebody fighting for them.

>> And not just somebody in there fighting for the rich and powerful.

State motto is forward.

>> The top two candidates for U.S. Senate were both born and raised in Madison, and both say that their primary reason for running is to help their fellow Wisconsinites and Americans.

But that's where the similarities end between Eric Hovde and Tammy Baldwin.

>> I will be a Senator for all of Wisconsin.

>> Baldwin, the Democrat, has spent more than three decades as an elected official.

Previously rising through the ranks from city council to the state legislature and then to the U.S. House of Representatives.

She says what she's done and learned over those years is what qualifies her now for a third term in the U.S. Senate.

>> The experience and the seniority matters.

Oftentimes, people criticize about the years of experience, but I can tell you that it is a complicated process, and the relationships that I have across the party aisle have allowed me to do really big things for Wisconsin and for the nation.

>> Hovde, the Republican, says his decades of success as a real estate developer and a bank owner, as well as running a foundation to help children, gives him the insight to help lead the country in a new direction.

real world.

I've actually built apartment complexes around our state and do land development for single family housing, so I have a wealth of experiences that can come to apply to, you know, Washington, D.C. Democrats currently have a razor thin majority in the U.S. Senate.

>> The winner in Wisconsin could tip the balance, given that there's also a presidential race this year.

The issues dominating the U.S. Senate race are driven by the top of the ticket, and those are inflation and the economy, immigration and abortion.

On inflation and the economy, Hovde says Democrats government spending is at fault.

>> We've gone through one of the worst bouts of inflation was all self-created by the excessive spending.

We're bankrupting our country.

So the first thing you have to do is pull down that spending back to pre-COVID levels.

That's the very first thing.

And then you have to put a long glide path of trying to reduce spending and trying to get on top of this deficit spending.

pandemic is where inflation began, but says that's not what's driving prices up today.

>> We saw prices go up because there were supply chain disruptions, and we saw prices go up because there was a lot of demand and little supply.

Now that that has rectified, it is corporate greed that is causing prices to stay high, even though their cost of production has gone down dramatically.

drastically different positions immigration and the southern border.

>> So the southern border we need to restore order there and there are clear things that need to happen, including Moore, US Border Patrol officers fixing the system whereby people seek asylum and don't have a case processed for years.

It should be months, not years.

>> We have to close our southern border, whether that is with a wall with greater security, it's going to take a multitude of different things.

We have to change the laws to allow us to remove those people, but we also have to fix legal immigration because we do have a lot of good people that we want to come here to work in our farms, to work in our factories, or look at our health care system.

>> And lastly, the issue of abortion has emerged as a singular topic that's driving many voters around the country and in Wisconsin to the polls.

>> Life is a wonderful thing, and I agree that there should be exceptions for rape, incest, and the health of the mother.

And I agree that early on in a woman's pregnancy, she should have a right to choose.

>> I am the leader in the fight to restore Roe v Wade.

It's through a bill that I lead called the Women's Health Protection Act.

That bill would codify Roe v Wade at the federal level, put it into our national laws.

>> Political scientists and pollsters around the state have noted how difficult it will be for Eric Hovde to beat Tammy Baldwin in November.

The senator has strong name recognition and support not only in Democratic strongholds of Madison and Milwaukee, but also in some rural parts of the state.

>> My way of approaching both the job as senator as well as the campaigns, is to try to travel everywhere.

I possibly can in the state of Wisconsin and meet people where they are, listen to their concerns and their aspirations, and have that inform the work that I do and the campaign that I run.

>> Still, Eric Hovde says his experience outside of politics makes him the better candidate, and he thinks he's got a chance at winning.

>> If you want this country to go in a better direction and have somebody who is doing it because he loves his country, he realizes the country is failing economically and we have to get people who understand our globalized, financialized understands real life experiences for "Here& Now".

>> I'm Steven Potter.

>> We've all heard the hateful political rhetoric.

Much of it these days, directed at migrants coming over the southern U.S. Border.

Is it bluster, as some apologists would say, or dangerously tipping toward political violence?

We turn to UW-Madison political scientist Nathan Kalmoe, author of The book Radical American Hostility and thanks for Being here.

>> So in your book, you discuss what you call moral disengagement that is vilifying outgroups, hyping the morality of in-groups, minimizing harms and righteous ends that justify aggressive means.

Is that what's happening here?

>> It is.

Yeah.

The language that we're hearing that's targeting migrants is dehumanizing.

Dehumanization is And what's dangerous about dehumanizing rhetoric is that it?

It creates excuses for people to harm groups that they dislike.

And so we see this historically.

We see this cross-nationally that they're targeted with dehumanizing language, are more subject to various kinds of harms, including violence against the community.

>> In your book, you say that hyper political polarization doesn't diagnose the problem.

It disguises it.

What do you mean by that?

>> Yeah, doctor.

Lily Mason and I feel like the polarization framework that we often hear so much about is really inappropriate when it's applied to these kinds of contexts, because the problem here isn't that we're divided.

It's what we're divided over.

And in particular, that one position in this case is, is a kind of racist hostility towards migrants, towards people of color more broadly.

And that's just not a one side versus the other side.

It's something that goes against some of the fundamental values of equality and freedom in our country.

And so when we focus on polarization, it creates this false moral equivalence.

Saying that, or at least implying that both sides should find some middle ground and really, we shouldn't be compromising on matters that are about the equality and the humanity of other people.

>> So we've all heard of the so-called replacement theory, whereby current minority populations will replace the majority white status holders in the U.S. Is this the genesis of potential violent hostility?

>> Yes.

This this false and racist conspiracy theory is quite dangerous because it creates a sense of existential threat in people who have more of an us versus them mentality and, and feel like diversity, instead of being a strength for our country, is a threat to them personally.

And this kind of conspiracy theory pushes people towards more extreme actions.

And again, it forms a kind of vilification that that justifies in their minds, that rationalizes harming these groups, including sometimes engaging in violent threats or violent actions, as we're seeing in Ohio.

Right now.

>> What cues are there from history about how ordinary citizens can be swept up in this?

>> Yeah, this kind of thinking, these kinds of actions are unfortunately, historically common.

This is the same kind of thinking and rhetoric that that justified and perpetuated United States.

It's the same kind of thinking of white supremacy that justified ethnic cleansing of Native Americans, of excluding and discriminating against Catholic immigrants and Asian immigrants throughout our history.

And so the, the danger is that on the one hand, it gets people to support policies of government that are really harmful and discriminatory against people who should be treated with humanity and equality.

And it can also mobilize people, especially when they feel like they don't have the kinds of outcomes that they want through the political system to turn to violence, and that violence can be perpetuated with or without the support of the broader government.

>> In the current kind of political electoral scape.

In terms of partisans, you say that partisans of both stripes have this kind of feeling of the other as evil?

>> Yeah.

So in our our public opinion surveys, we measured extreme hostility.

We felt that that prior previous scholarship had not fully mapped the levels of extreme hostility.

And so we asked about a number of forms of moral disengagement, including feeling like the other side is evil.

Basically, what we found starting in 2017 was about 40% of Democrats and Republicans had that view of their political opponents.

That number has rise, at least among Republicans in the years since last year.

Our survey showed about 60% of Republicans were endorsing this view that Democrats are evil.

Still, about 40 to 45% of Democrats were saying the same thing.

I think that's a worrisome level of political hostility.

But I think it's important to keep in mind the distinction between thinking of people as evil and thinking of actions and ideas as evil, and the distinction there is that while it's probably inappropriate to see people as as being wholly evil, they're certainly actions, including racist violence that that could fairly be characterized as evil and that that should be condemned in, in pretty strong terms.

If not evil.

>> All right.

>> Very interesting.

Nathan Kalmoe, thank you so much.

>> Thanks so much for having me.

>> For years, the debate to expand Medicaid in Wisconsin has been shut down by Republicans refusing to consider it, even as a new report from the Wisconsin policy Forum says it could save the state $1.7 billion.

1 population that Medicaid serves, but often feels left out of the conversation.

Are people with disabilities, many of whom are pitted between earning a fair wage and keeping their Medicaid benefits.

In a collaboration with Wisconsin Public Radio's “America Amplified” project, here and Now's, Aditi Debnath is reporting on questions voters are asking this election.

This is the third story in that series.

>> This is part of their day.

This is part of their routine.

They enjoy that paycheck.

At the end of every two weeks, Laura Paepke runs a job skills building program for people with developmental disabilities.

We are there day service provider.

So if there are days that there is not work available, we'll do some vocational workshops.

>> Paepke program called T industries, is one of 49 employers in the state with a special certification known as 14 C. It allows her to pay workers with disabilities based on their productivity, even if that comes out to less than the state minimum wage of 725 an hour.

That pay arrangement, however, doesn't sit well with advocates like Beth Swedeen, executive director of the Wisconsin Board for people with Developmental Disabilities.

>> Our position is that people with disabilities should be working at similar jobs to other people based on their interests, and that they should get compensated at market rates.

>> Paying workers with disabilities less than the minimum wage has induced controversy across the country, causing 13 states to eliminate those kinds of private employers altogether.

>> So my brother's name is Matthew, and he is 46 years old.

He's been at T industries for at least 20 years.

>> Kristina Miller lives with her brother Matthew, who enjoys his work at T. She says that even if he earned minimum wage, he wouldn't be able to get ahead.

amount of money, his SSI benefits automatically get reduced and he then is also subject to losing his Medicaid benefits.

>> She's found the debate over 14 C employment programs for disabled workers to be frustrating, since everything has started with trying to eliminate the 14 C certification.

organizations putting more restrictions managed care organizations are the decision makers for how Medicaid dollars are spent, which includes funding for T industries.

>> In 2014, federal regulations forced Wisconsin to increase the age requirement to participate in 14 C programs from 18 to 25.

This change was aimed at getting younger adults to seek standard jobs before turning to sheltered workshop employment.

>> Like any complex social problem, there's no silver bullet solution, Swedeen says.

>> Medicaid expansion could improve these programs.

>> That money could be invested back into wages, benefits and other supports.

>> This would eliminate one of Kristina Miller's main reasons for favoring Subminimum wage work for her brother.

Fear of losing his Medicaid benefits.

>> We should be fighting for there for no caps on their Social Security benefits, you know, for not having caps for their Medicaid benefits so they can get these community jobs and work and not worry about losing their benefits and having, you know, those cut or reduced because now they're making too much money.

>> That's not true.

There's a lot of benefits counseling out there that can help people understand how much they can earn and still retain their health insurance and other public benefits.

mean added supports for personal care and employment, skills for people with disabilities, and not having to choose between fair wages and disability benefits.

learning how to, you know, manage money or learn about cell phone etiquette or anything.

>> Mary Swifka is Noah's mother.

He has Down's syndrome.

>> The idea is to give him the independence that he deserves.

>> Swifka is an advocate for Medicaid expansion, but she feels people with disabilities are often left out of the conversation at the state level.

>> What I've heard from state legislative leaders, they think that all Medicaid does is provide medical insurance for people who are lower income and frail elderly, but Medicaid does so much more than that.

Medicaid dollars pay for Noah to be independent in his community.

They pay for job coaching, Medicaid pays for people with disabilities who have to have at home care.

>> Swedeen says that regular jobs are most valuable for people with developmental disabilities, both in wages and experiences, but that she recognizes the value in sheltered workshop programs and Medicaid expansion would give people that choice.

>> There's still a place for some people who are older, maybe, or have have worked or have gotten those vocational supports for many years where we're not advocating the erasure of providers, but we are advocating that it's important for people, whenever possible, to get their supports in the community and at a fair market wage.

>> Paepke says a statewide elimination of programs like T would be difficult for her clients.

vocational services, we have day activities, and that's really what the clients should be, their choice to decide not, you know, a government entity making that choice.

Aditi Debnath for "Here& Now".

>> A lot of attention is paid to the youth vote, especially.

Will they or won't they cast a ballot?

But the senior vote is much more assured.

And in Wisconsin, people over the age of 50 are the largest voting bloc.

That's according to AARP Wisconsin.

Out with a recent election poll heading into November five.

Jim Flaherty of AARP Wisconsin joins us now.

And thanks for being here.

>> Oh, thanks for having me.

>> So when we say that the senior vote in Wisconsin is more assured, what does your poll say about their enthusiasm to vote?

>> Well, our poll, which came out after the last presidential debate.

So fresh in people's minds, shows that those aged 50 and over are the most motivated demographic of any voters in Wisconsin.

More than nine out of ten voters over age 50 Hepp were polled said that they are extremely motivated to vote in this election, which should be a wake up call for candidates to say, hey, you got to start listening to what these 50 plus voters are saying.

>> So as with other polls, the candidates in the presidential and U.S. Senate race here are neck and neck.

Apart from the horse race of it, though.

What issues are especially salient for people over 50?

Well, 77% of voters aged 50 and older are saying that candidates position on social Security are very, very important to them.

>> That's followed by obviously Medicare.

Same.

Just about as high.

69% are helping people to remain living in their homes as long as possible.

We call those family caregivers 63%.

Cost of prescription drugs and their medications is still very much top of mind.

Four out of five.

So 79% of Wisconsin voters prefer a member of Congress who wants Medicare to continue to negotiate for lower drug prices.

So, you know, these are these are pocketbook issues.

You know, can I afford to pay for my monthly medications while also paying rent and food?

A lot of people have to cut their pills in half just to be able to get by.

There's a lot of people struggling across Wisconsin, and it's it really is time for candidates to pay attention to that.

If I may, for just a second.

Family caregivers, there's about 600,000 of them in Wisconsin.

These are folks who are raising their own families.

They have their own jobs, and they're helping out loved ones.

So that they can remain living in their own homes and communities as long as possible.

We call these the unsung heroes of Wisconsin.

They do things like helping loved ones with meal preparation and medication management, bill paying, transportation, bathing, sometimes driving, driving them to church, into the grocery store.

Without these family caregivers, which we refer to as the backbone of Wisconsin's long term care system, it would the whole system would fall apart.

Obviously, there will always be a need for assisted living and for nursing homes, but family caregivers are the heroes of Wisconsin.

And as the state gets older, AARP believes that the state should do more to support this group.

>> What kind of supports for allowing people to live independently at home would get older?

People's vote.

>> That's a great question, and at the state level, we AARP is advancing an idea called a caregiver tax credit.

The governor has had it in his last two budgets, but it's been removed later in the process by the Joint Finance Committee.

This would be a $500 income tax credit that would go to family caregivers, and it could help offset some of the costs that they incur while providing this care.

Family caregivers spend about $7,000 a year out of their own pocket to help their loved ones remain in their homes.

This tax credit can help them with costs such as, you know, putting in a handicap ramp or a Schauer bar, or any costs that they incur while providing care for a loved one.

They could write this off to a up to $500, and we think that this is something the state legislature really needs to look at.

>> So meanwhile, heading into Election Day, how are seniors faring in Wisconsin right now?

>> Well, like I say, some, you know, many, many are struggling wi, AARP Wisconsin, we're the state office of a huge national office and we go all over the state.

So we go to we host events at fairs.

We are at the Iowa Car Show we've been at in La Crosse, Madison, Kenosha.

And folks are telling us, you know, they're struggling.

They really want candidates to listen to their concerns and a lot of most of them are pocketbook issues.

They are concerned about the economy, utility rates rising without them having a say in it.

They want to be able to have somebody who has their back.

And that's what these candidates can provide is saying, you know, we understand the struggles that you are going through as an older wisconsinite and we've got your back and you know, you don't have to talk to AARP.

You can talk to anyone on the street to know that Wisconsin is getting older.

More and more baby boomers are retiring every going to have an older state and we've got to do things to support them.

Some things like making sure we have high speed internet in every community across the state, that is no longer a luxury.

It is a requirement.

Folks who aren't close to hospital systems or clinics, they rely on telehealth.

So that's how they're that's how they can communicate with their doctors.

It it mitigates social isolation so that these folks can talk to loved ones.

Broadband expansion is huge for Wisconsin seniors, and it's something that needs to be addressed.

>> All right.

We leave it there.

Jim Flaherty, AARP Wisconsin.

Thank you.

Thank you for more on this and other issues facing Wisconsin, visit our web site at PBS Wisconsin Dot org.

And then click on the news tab to see all of our election coverage.

Visit Wisconsin Vote.org.

That's our program for tonight.

I'm Frederica Freyberg.

Have a good weekend.

>> Funding for "Here& Now" is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.