>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL PRODUCTION.

>> I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.

TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW," THE LATEST ON THE STATE WOLF HUNT.

WE CHECK IN WITH THE STATE SENATOR WHO IS LEADING THE NEXT ELECTION INVESTIGATION.

AND WPR'S SHAWN JOHNSON BREAKS DOWN THE LATEST ON REDISTRICTING.

IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR OCTOBER 29.

>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS WISCONSIN.

>> PARTISAN ROILING AROUND THE 2020 ELECTION HIT A FEVER PITCH LATE THIS WEEK.

THE RACINE COUNTY SHERIFF ACCUSED THE WISCONSIN ELECTION COMMISSION OF BREAKING THE LAW IN THE MIDST OF THE PANDEMIC FOR ALLOWING NURSING HOME STAFF TO HELP RESIDENTS VOTE IN PLACE OF DEPUTIES.

ASSEMBLY SPEAKER ROBIN VOS QUICKLY PILED ON, CALLING FOR THE WEC ADMINISTRATOR TO RESIGN AND OTHER REPUBLICANS CALLED FOR ALL STATE ELECTION COMMISSIONERS TO IMMEDIATELY STEP DOWN AND FACE POSSIBLE PROSECUTION.

IN RESPONSE, MEAGAN WOLFE SAID DESPITE THE CURRENT POLITICAL FIRESTORM I WILL CONTINUE TO APPLY MY FULL FOCUS ON THE IMPORTANT WORK OF SERVING VOTERS AND ELECTION FOACIALS.

IT WOULD BE IRRESPONSIBLE TO SPEND ANY ENERGY ENGAGING A BLATANTLY PARTISAN AND COORDINATED ATTEMPT TO BASELESSLY CHALLENGE THE INTEGRITY OF DEMOCRACY IN OUR GREAT STATE.

GOVERNOR EVERS CALLED VOS'S REACTION UNBECOMING OF HIS POSITION AND, IMPORTANTLY, THE RACINE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY HAS NOT FILED CHARGES.

IN THE MIDST OF ALL OF THIS, THERE IS YET ANOTHER WISCONSIN ELECTION INVESTIGATION IN THE WORKS.

STATE SENATE LEADERS THIS WEEK ANNOUNCED THEY TOO WOULD LAUNCH A PROBE INTO THE 2020 ELECTION FOLLOWING RESULTS OF THE LEGISLATIVE AUDIT BUREAU REVIEW, WHICH DIDN'T FIND ANY WIDESPREAD FRAUD BUT MADE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE COMMISSION AND LEGISLATURE TO CONSIDER AROUND ELECTION PROCEDURES.

NOW THE SENATE ELECTIONS COMMITTEE WILL CONDUCT THE LATEST INVESTIGATION.

ITS CHAIR IS REPUBLICAN SENATOR KATHLEEN BERNIER OF CHIPPEWA FALLS WHO JOINS US NOW AND THANKS VERY MUCH FOR DOING SO.

>> IT IS MY PLEASURE.

THANK YOU.

>> SO WAS THIS A COORDINATED PARTISAN ATTACK ATTEMPTING TO UNDERMINE OUR ELECTI ELECTIONS?

WHAT THE RACINE COUNTY SHERIFF ANNOUNCED?

>> NO.

THIS IS NOT A NEW PHENOMENON.

THAT IS WITH NURSING HOME STAFF WHO MANIPULATE AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE ELDERLY AND THE DISABLED.

I SPENT MONTHS WORKING ON SPECIAL VOTING DEPUTY LEGISLATION FOR THAT PURPOSE, BECAUSE IT IS SOMETHING WE KNEW THAT WAS OCCURRING.

AND SO BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC, A DECISION HAD TO BE MADE, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT OTHER DECISION THEY COULD HAVE MADE, BUT I BELIEVE THAT THE ENFORCEMENT OF THE LAW AGAINST THESE INDIVIDUALS THAT TOOK ADVANTAGE OF OUR ELDERLY AND DISABLED SHOULD BE PURSUED.

>> DO YOU ALSO THINK THAT THE WEC COMMISSIONERS AND ITS ADMINISTRATORS SHOULD RESIGN?

>> I BELIEVE THE COMMISSION IS SET UP FOR FAILURE AT THIS POINT WITH THE PERSONALITIES THAT ARE INVOLVED.

WITH THREE DEMOCRATS AND THREE REPUBLICANS EACH VOTING THEIR SEPARATE PARTISAN WISHES, SO A 3-3 VOTE MEANS THAT THE STAFF DO NOT GET ANY DIRECTION.

WHEN THEY GO TO THE BOARD AND ASK FOR DIRECTION, IT ENDS UP IN A TIE AND THEN A TIE MEANS NOTHING WILL HAPPEN.

>> WHAT ABOUT MEAGAN WOLFE?

DO YOU THINK SHE SHOULD STEP DOWN?

>> NO.

NO.

SHE IS DOING WHAT THE ELECTION COMMISSION TELLS HER TO DO OR TELLS HER NOT TO DO.

I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS FAIR TO A STAFF PERSON TO HOLD HER 100% ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT THE ELECTION COMMISSION HAS DECIDED.

AND I BELIEVE THE AUDIT POINTS TO THAT DIRECTION.

VERY FEW THINGS -- THERE'S ONE THING I'VE READ THUS FAR THAT THE STAFF DID NOT DO CORRECTLY AND THAT'S INFORM GOVERNING BODIES THAT THE CLERK DIDN'T DO THEIR TRAINING.

BUT ASIDE FROM THAT, MOST ALL OF IT REFERS TO THE WISCONSIN ELECTION COMMISSION ITSELF.

>> TURNING TO YOUR INVESTIGATION SPECIFICALLY, WHY ARE YOU DECIDING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH YET ANOTHER INVESTIGATION?

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YET ANOTHER INVESTIGATION.

WE HAVEN'T REALLY HAD THIS BEFORE, SO THIS IS -- THE INVESTIGATION HAS TO DO WITH ELECTION OFFICIALS WHO MAY NOT BE ACCOMMODATING THE LEGISLATIVE AUDIT BUREAU.

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT CAN STAND, BECAUSE OUR STATE LAW DIRECTS COUNTIES, MUNICIPALITIES TO ACCOMMODATE THE AUDIT BUREAU'S REQUESTS.

SO THAT IS THE FOCUS OF THIS INVESTIGATION.

AS TO WHY THEY WOULD NOT ACCOMMODATE THE AUDIT BUREAU.

BECAUSE IN THE FUTURE, WHETHER IT HAS TO DO WITH ELECTIONS OR ANYTHING ELSE, THE MUNICIPALITIES AND THE COUNTIES AND THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS ARE REQUIRED BY LAW, 13.94, TO ACCOMMODATE THE REQUESTS OF THE LEGISLATIVE AUDIT BUREAU.

AND THAT IS STRICTLY THE FOCUS OF THIS INVESTIGATION.

>> SO THIS HAS TO DO WITH CLERKS WHO DECLINED TO ALLOW AUDIT BUREAU STAFF TO PHYSICALLY HANDLE ELECTION RECORDS.

BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S ALSO BEEN DECIDED BY THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL THAT IT WAS, QUOTE, ARGUABLY REASONABLE TO PERMIT ONLY CLERKS' STAFF TO PHYSICALLY HANDLE THESE DOCUMENTS.

>> SO THERE'S MORE TO THAT STORY.

WHEN A LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL OPINION IS GIVEN, IT USUALLY IS WORDED AND PURSUED BY A SPECIFIC LEGISLATOR.

AND THAT WAS SENATOR JANET BEWLEY REQUESTED THAT.

THE DIRECTOR OF THE COUNCIL REACHED OUT TO ME FOR MORE TO THE STORY AND ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.

I HAVEN'T SPOKEN WITH HER YET.

BUT THERE IS MORE TO THE STORY.

SUCH AS THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE IS NOT THE ONLY RACE ON THAT BALLOT.

THERE ARE MANY OTHER RACES, STATE RACES AND COUNTY RACES ON THOSE BALLOTS.

AND SO THERE'S A LOT MORE TO BE INVESTIGATED, WHICH WHY I'M HAVING AN INVESTIGATION.

>> VERY QUICKLY, I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT MINORITY LEADER JANET BEWLEY ALSO STATED THAT INSTEAD OF LAUNCHING AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE AUDIT BUREAU'S FINDINGS, THE LEGISLATURE SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON ITS ELECTION-RELATED RECOMMENDATIONS.

WHAT ABOUT THAT IDEA?

WE HAVE ONLY ABOUT A HALF A MINUTE LEFT.

>> OKAY.

I'VE ALREADY -- WE'RE ALREADY WORKING ON THAT, DRAFTING INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE RECOMMENDATIONS.

THE AUDIT COMMITTEE ALREADY IS HOLDING A HEARING ON THE RESULTS OF THE AUDIT.

AND THEN MY INVESTIGATION HAS TO DO WITH THE COOPERATION OR THE LACK OF COOPERATION BY ELECTION OFFICIALS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

GREAT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

AND THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY ON THIS VERY CONTROVERSIAL ELECTION STUFF THAT'S GOING ON IN THE STATE OF WISCONSIN.

SENATOR KATHLEEN BERNIER, THANK YOU.

>> OKAY.

YOU'RE WELCOME.

>> A FEDERAL JUDGE IN MADISON TODAY HEARD ARGUMENTS ON THE STATE WOLF HUNT SET TO BEGIN NEXT SATURDAY.

SIX CHIPPEWA TRIBES IN WISCONSIN DSUED THE DNR AFTER HUNTERS BLEW THROUGH THE QUOTA IN THE FEBRUARY HUNT.

>> I THINK THEY TOOK TOO MANY OF THEM AT ONE TIME DURING THAT WINTER -- I GUESS THE WINTER-SPRING HUNT HERE.

THEY TOOK 218 ANIMALS.

WE HAD CLAIMED HALF OF THEM AS THE OJIBWA'S TRIBE'S, TO TRY TO PRESERVE THEM BECAUSE THERE'S OTHER THINGS IN OUR ECOSYSTEM THAT NEED TO BE TAKEN CARE OF BY THAT WOLF HAVING TO DO WITH CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE IN OUR AREA.

ESPECIALLY THE ONES WE HUNT AND TAKE FOOD FROM.

>> A DANE COUNTY JUDGE A WEEK AGO ISSUED A TEMPORARY INJUNCTION STOPPING NEXT WEEK'S HUNT SAYING IT CANNOT HAPPEN UNTIL THE DNR ENACTS FORMAL RULEMAKING FOR HUNTING WOLVES.

AS A RESULT, THE DNR ANNOUNCES IT IS NOT ISSUING ANY LICENSES FOR THE HUNT AS IT WORKS ON RULES AND A WOLF MANAGEMENT PLAN.

TONIGHT, LUKE HILGEMANN JOINS US FROM HUNTER NATION.

IT WANTS THE DNR TO APPEAL THE STATE COURT RULING.

THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON.

>> IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THIS YEAR'S FALL WOLF HUNT WHICH WAS SUPPOSED TO BEGIN IN A LITTLE MORE THAN A WEEK IS OFF.

WHAT'S YOUR REACTION TO THAT?

>> WELL, WE THINK THERE'S STILL AN OUTWARD CHANCE IF THE EVERS ADMINISTRATION AND DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE COMES BACK TO THE TABLE AND CHALLENGES THIS RULING, THAT HUNTERS' RIGHTS AND THE CONSTITUTIONALLY-PROTECTED RIGHT THAT WE ESTABLISHED IN OUR COURT CASE IN FEBRUARY CAN STILL HAPPEN.

WE HAVE NOVEMBER UNTIL THE MONTHS OF FEBRUARY TO HUNT WOLVES BY STATUTE.

WE BELIEVE THAT THIS ACTIVIST RULING COMES OUT OF DANE COUNTY IS A SETBACK FOR SURE, BUT DEFINITELY NOT ONE THAT IF THE GOVERNOR AND THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CHALLENGE THIS RULING, WE THINK THAT THEY CAN PREVAIL AT THE LEVEL.

>> GIVEN THE DNR IS SAYING IT IS PROMULGATING RULES AND NOT ISSUING ANY LICENSES, IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THE AGENCY IS NOT GOING TO APPEAL THAT DANE COUNTY JUDGE'S RULING.

>> AND WE THINK THAT'S A TERRIBLE DECISION.

WE THINK THAT'S ONE THAT THE EVERS ADMINISTRATION AND HIS DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES AND ATTORNEY GENERAL JOSH KAUL ARE GOING TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

THERE IS AN ABSOLUTE NEED TO APPEAL THIS ACTIVIST RULING AND WE ARE PUSHING HARD.

WE'RE STILL LOOKING AT OUR POTENTIAL OPPORTUNITIES TO APPEAL THIS RULING AS WELL.

>> WHAT KIND OF RESPONSE HAVE YOU GOTTEN FROM YOUR CALLS TO THE EVERS ADMINISTRATION AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO GO AHEAD AND APPEAL THIS?

>> TOO MUCH SILENCE, UNFORTUNATELY, FREDERICA.

THOUSANDS, WE KNOW THAT THOUSANDS OF HUNTERS HAVE PICKED UP THE PHONE AND DEMANDED THAT THIS RIDICULOUS RULING BE CHALLENGED.

WE BELIEVE IT HAS NO BASIS IN LAW AND HARDLY ANY BASIS IN LOGIC.

THE WAY THAT HE GOT TO THIS RULING JEOPARDIZES REGULATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN HELD IN PLACE IN WISCONSIN FOR GENERATIONS.

WE BELIEVE THAT HUNTERS HAVE A STRONG CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO HUNT THAT IS BEING IN FR INFRINY THIS RULING.

>> HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO TRIBAL NATION WHO OPPOSE HA HARVESTING WOLVES AND THAT A MORE SELECTIVE HUNT COULD BE CONSIDERED, LIKE ISSUING PERMITS TO IMPACTED FARMERS TO LET THEM KILL NUISANCE ANIMALS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

>> WE RESPECT AND APPRECIATE THE OPINIONS OF THE NATIVE AMERICANS TRIBES IN WISCONSIN.

BUT WE ALSO RESPECT AND APPRECIATE THE REALITY THAT WOLVES AREN'T JUST SELECTED KILLERS, RIGHT?

WE'VE HAD THOUSANDS OF ANIMALS, PETS, LIVESTOCK THAT HAVE BEEN KILLED BY WOLVES AS THEY EXPAND THEIR TERRITORY IN WISCONSIN.

HUNTER NATION ISN'T AN ORGANIZATION THAT WANTS ALL OF THE WOLVES KILLED.

WE BELIEVE THAT THE WOLF IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF OUR ECOSYSTEM, PLAYS A RESPONSIBLE ROLE IF IT'S MANAGED PROPERLY.

WHAT WE'VE SEEN OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS AS WISCONSIN'S WOLF HUNT HAS BEEN SHELVED SINCE 2014 IS THE WOLF HAS EXPA EXPAND ITS TERRITORY AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN DEPREDATION PAYMENTS HAVE BEEN A RESULT.

WE RESPECT THE TRIBE'S OPINION, BUT WE BELIEVE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THE WOLF TERRITORY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY AND PRIVILEGE TO ALSO FEEL SAFE AND PROTECTED WHEN THEY GO OUTSIDE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WE LEAVE IT THERE.

LUKE HILGEMANN, HUNTER NATION, THANKS VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THE ONCE-EVERY-DECADE AND VERY CONTENTIOUS REDISTRICTING PROCESS IS WELL UNDERWAY IN WISCONSIN AND LATE THIS WEEK THE REPUBLICAN-DRAWN MAPS CAME BEFORE A JOINT COMMITTEE FOR A PUBLIC HEARING.

>> OUR GOAL FROM THE START WAS TO FINISH MAPS THAT PRIORITIZE AND ADJUST FOR CHANGE.

>> THE MAPS WOULD GIVE REPUBLICANS A SIGNIFICANT ADVANTAGE IN FUTURE ELECTIONS ACCORDING TO EXPERTS, BUT GOVERNOR EVERS IS EXPECTED TO VETO THE GOP MAPS IN FAVOR OF HIS OWN, WHICH STILL MAINTAIN A REPUBLICAN MAJORITY BUT A SMALLER ONE.

>> NOT ONLY DO WE NOT GET THE THINGS THAT WE ASKED FOR AS A PEOPLE.

WE DON'T EVEN GET THE DEBATE, BECAUSE THE SYSTEM IS RIGGED.

AND AS THE ELECTIONS SHOW, THE ELECTORATE SHIFTS BACK AND FORTH, THE ASSEMBLY AND THE SENATE DO NOT.

>> AND SO WITH THE GOVERNOR'S VETO OF THE GOP MAPS ALL BUT CERTAIN, THE MAPS ARE HEADING TO COURT.

WISCONSIN PUBLIC RADIO'S CAPITAL BUREAU CHIEF JOHNSO SHAWN JOHNSS VEL OFVEL OFFDELVED INTO IT.

HEY, SHAWN.

ARE YOU PRETTY MUCH MAPPED OUT?

>> AS YOU KNOW, EVEN IF I WERE MAPPED OUT, THESE EPISODES ARE VERY TIGHT AND NOT TOO EXHAUSTIVE FOR THE LISTENER.

>> THEY'RE GREAT REALLY.

>> THANK YOU.

>> IF THE NEW GOP MAPS LOOK A LOT LIKE THEIR OLD MAPS, EXPERTS HAVE DEPICTED THE OLD ONES AS THE MOST JERRY MAN GERRYMANDERE COUNTRY.

WHY ARE REPUBLICANS SAYING THEY ARE GOOD MAPS?

>> THE OVERRIDING REASON IS THAT THEY MAKE VERY FEW CHANGES TO THE LAST MAPS, WHICH THEY LIKE.

THEY PASSED A RESOLUTION IN SEPTEMBER THAT SAID HERE THE PRINCIPLES THAT WE ARE GOING TO FOLLOW WHEN WE DRAW THESE NEW MAPS.

AND CORE RETENTION, THIS IDEA OF A LEAST CHANGES MAP, WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THEY LISTED.

THE IDEA OF NOT PAIRING A BUNCH OF INCUMBENTS, SO YOU HAVE A LOT OF NEW REPRESENTATIVES.

BASED ON THESE CRITERIA, THESE MAPS PASS WITH FLYING COLORS AND THEY HAVE THE ADDED BENEFIT OF CEMENTING THIS REPUBLICAN MAP THAT HAS HELPED THEM HOLD THEIR MAJORITY FOR A DECADE.

>> SO AN EXAMPLE OF THE CURRENT OR OLD MAPS FROM YOUR PODCAST THAT WAS SUPER INTERESTING WAS HOW THE CITY OF DI DEFOREST HAS THREE ASSEMBLY AND THREE SENATE DISTRICTS.

IS THAT AN EXAMPLE OF HOW TORTUOUS THE PROCESS CAN BECOME?

>> I THINK IN THE DEFOREST CASE IT'S AN EXAMPLE OF HOW A COMMUNITY OF THAT SIZE, WHICH WOULD BE EASY TO PUT IN A SINGLE DISTRICT IF THAT WERE A PRIORITY, CAN KIND OF GET BUMPED DOWN THE PRIORITY LIST WHEN YOU HAVE OTHER GOALS IN MIND.

MAPMAKERS ARE ALWAYS KIND OF STAGGERING THEIR PRIORITIES, WHAT THEY REALLY WANT TO DO.

IN 2011 DID HE FOREST CAME UP ON THE SHORT END OF THAT.

THEY HAVE THREE REPRESENTATIVES, THREE SENATORS.

NOBODY REALLY CALLS IT HOME.

IN THIS NEW MAP DEFOREST WOULD BE LESS DIVIDED THAN UNDER THE OLD ONE, BUT YOU DO HAVE OTHER COMMUNITIES WHERE THEY'RE STILL CHOPPED UP DIFFERENTLY THAN THEY WERE A DECADE OR SO AGO.

>> SO WHAT'S THE OUTCOME OF A GUARANTEED REPUBLICAN SWEEP IN THE LEGISLATURE AND THEN CITING A LINE FROM YOUR REPORTING, YOU SAY WHEN YOU HAVE A MAJORITY THAT YOU KNOW YOU WON'T LOSE, YOU CAN AFFORD TO THINK BIG.

BASICALLY YOU CAN DO WHAT YOU WANT REGARDLESS OF PUBLIC OPINION.

AND WHAT'S A PRIMARY EXAMPLE OF THAT?

>> I LIKE TO THICHG THINK OF ITN THREE CATEGORIES.

THERE'S STUFF THAT REPUBLICANS HAVE DONE IN THE PAST THAT GETS LOCKED IN.

SO THEY PASSED ACT 10, FOR EXAMPLE, OR VOTER I.D.

THERE WAS NEVER REALLY A BIG ATTEMPT TO UNDO THOSE POLICIES BECAUSE THE NEW LEGISLATURE WAS NEVER GOING TO OVERTURN THOSE THINGS.

THERE'S STUFF THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO.

FOR EXAMPLE, MEDICAL MARIJUANA IS SUPPORTED BY MORE THAN 80% OF THE PUBLIC, BUT THERE'S NEVER BEEN A PUSH IN WISCONSIN REALLY TO ALLOW FOR MEDICAL MARIJUANAMENT AND TMARIJUANA.ANT MIGHT HAVE BEEN UNTHINKABLE FOR REPUBLICANS BEFORE, LIKE A PRIVATE SECTOR RIGHT TO WORK LAW, WHERE THEY SAID FOR YEARS THEY DIDN'T WANT THAT.

BUT AROUND 2015, UNDER THE CURRENT MAPS, THEY CHANGED THEIR MIND AND THEY PASSED IT PRETTY QUICKLY.

SO THERE'S ALL SORTS OF CATEGORIES OF STUFF WHERE REPUBLICANS CAN BEHAVE DIFFERENTLY, DOING SOMETHING OR NOT DOING SOMETHING, WHEN YOU HAVE THE MAP AT YOUR BACK.

>> THIS IS EXPECTED TO LAND IN THE COURTS AFTER THE LEGISLATURE VOTES ON THEM IN THE COMING DAYS AND EVERS VETOES THEM, AS IS EXPECTED.

HOW IS THIS COURT PROCESS GOING TO GO?

WE HAVE LIKE LESS THAN A MINUTE.

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, THAT'S THE BIG QUESTION THIS TIME AROUND.

I THINK IT'S PRETTY MUCH A GIVEN IT'S GOING TO GO TO COURT.

IN THE PAST, THAT HAS GONE TO A FEDERAL COURT WHERE A THREE-JUDGE PANEL HAS DECIDED MAPS.

BUT THE FEDERAL COURT HAS GIVEN INDICATIONS THAT IT'S GOING TO GIVE THE STATE SUPREME COURT THE FIRST SHOT AT IT THIS TIME.

THE STATE SUPREME COURT HASN'T DRAWN MAPS SINCE 1964.

THIS IS WHERE REPUBLICANS WANT IT RESOLVED AND THEY'RE ASKING THE COURT TO AGREE WITH THEIR IDEA OF MAKING AS FEW CHANGES AS POSSIBLE TO THE MAPS THAT THEY PASSED THAT THEY LIKE FROM 2011.

>> ALL RIGHT.

SHAWN JOHNSON, THANKS VERY MUCH.

>> THANKS, FRED.

>> A DECADE AFTER ACT 10 THE WORD "RECALL" IS BACK IN WISCONSIN POLITICS, THIS TIME WITH NATIONAL ATTENTION DRAWN TO A SCHOOL BOARD RACE IN SOUTHEASTERN WISCONSIN.

REPORTER WILL KENNEALLY EXPLORES WHY THE RACE HAS GARNERED SUCH A SPOTLIGHT.

>> IT STARTED WITH THE PANDEMIC AND OUR MITIGATION EFFORTS.

>> CHRIS SCHULTZ JOINED THE MEQUON THIENSVILLE SCHOOL BOARD IN 2015 AFTER RETIRING AS A SCIENCE TEACHER.

HER DISTRICT GRAPPLED WITH HOW TO RUN SCHOOLS AMID THE PANDEMIC.

>> WE HAD PARENTS ON BOTH SIDES CONCERNED WITH MANDATORY MASKING VERSUS OPTIONAL MASKING AND THAT ISSUE CONTINUED AND DEVELOPED AND NOT MUCH STRONGER TOWARD THE END OF THE SCHOOL YEAR.

>> THAT CULMINATED AUGUST 23, WHEN AMBER SCHROEDER AND OTHER ORGANIZERS BEGAN THE RECALL PROCESS FOR FOUR MEMBERS OF THE SCHOOL BOARD.

>> WE WANT TO SEE A LOT OF CHANGE, THE FOCUS BROUGHT BACK TO THE CHILDREN, THE KIDS IN THE DISTRICT.

WE WANT TO SEE MORE PARENTAL ENGAGEMENT WITH OUR KIDS.

>> THE GROUP RESTORE MTSD IS RUNNING AGAINST THE MEMBERS ELIGIBLE TO BE RECALLED.

SCARLETT JOHNSON IS RUNNING.

>> WE NEED TO CHANGE THE WAY OUR SCHOOL BOARD GOVERNS.

>> THEY HAVE BEEN WORKING UP TO THIS FOR ABOUT A YEAR NOW, PETITIONING THE SCHOOL BOARD FOR CHANGE.

>> IT'S PERSONAL.

IT MATTERS TO ME.

IT MATTERS TO THE COMMUNITY.

HEY, I'M DOING A NEWS INTERVIEW RIGHT NOW.

IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT MY KIDS.

IT'S ABOUT MY NEIGHBORS' KIDS, FRIENDS' KIDS, STRANGERS' KIDS.

WE COULD NOT WAIT ANY LONGER AND WATCH THE DECLAIN HAPPENING.

>> THAT'S A POINT OF AGREEMENT FOR ALL SIGNED.

>> I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT THERE ARE PARENTS THAT ARE AUTHENTICALLY CONCERNED ABOUT OUR DISTRICT AND WHAT'S HAPPENING IN OUR DISTRICT AND THEY WANT US TO CONTINUE TO BE IN THE TOP, WANT US TO BE NUMBER ONE, RIGHT?

AS DO WE ALL.

WE ALL WANT OUR DISTRICT TO BE THE BEST IT CAN BE.

BUT INTRODUCTION OF POLITICS INTO THIS CONFLICTED, THOUGH, HAS FROM MY PERSPECTIVE REALLY MUDDIED THE WATERS.

>> SCHOOL BOARD RACES HAVE TURNED INTO A PROXY OVER THINGS LIKE THE PANDEMIC RESPONSE AND CRITICAL RACE THEORY.

WISCONSIN IS AMONG THE STATES WITH THE MOST RECALL EFFORTS NATIONALLY AND HAS DRAWN ATTENTION FROM POLITICAL PARTISANS.

REBECCA KLEEFISCH HAS CLOSE TIES WITH RECALL ORGANIZERS AND THE CAMPAIGN HAS RECEIVED THE BACKING OF RICHARD UIHLEIN.

>> BECAUSE MAYBE OF THE POLITICAL FLAVOR, IT'S MUCH MORE CONTROVERSIAL CONVERSATIONS BEING HAD.

MY HEART IS CRYING OUT.

PLEASE LET'S TAKE CARE OF OUR KIDS.

>> A U SUCCESSFUL RECALL COULD E A BLUEPRINT AROUND THE STATE AS VOTERS HEAD TO THE POLLS NEXT TUESDAY.

I'M WILL KENNEALLY FOR "HERE AND NOW."

>> THE MURDER TRIAL FOR KYLE RITTENHOUSE STARTS NEXT WEEK.

HE'S CHARGED WITH HOMICIDE AND ATTEMPTED HOMICIDE IN THE SHOOTING DEATHS OF TWO PEOPLE AND THE WOUNDING OF ANOTHER DURING FIERY PROTESTS IN THAT CITY LAST SUMMER FOLLOWING THE SHOOTING OF JACOB BLAKE.

A PRETRIAL RULING THIS WEEK SPARKED CONTROVERSY WHEN A JUDGE RULED THAT THE ATTORNEYS COULD NOT REFER TO THE MEN SHOT AS VICTIMS, BUT AS RIOTERS, LOOTERS.

WE ASKED LANNY GLINBERG, CLINICAL PROFESSOR AND DIRECTOR OF THE UW LAW SCHOOL PROSECUTION PROJECT.

THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING THEE.

>> SO WHY WOULDN'T ATTORNEYS BE ABLE TO REFER TO PEOPLE WHO ARE SHOT AND KILLED AS VICTIMS?

>> SO THE RULING IS UNCOMMON BUT NOT UNPRECEDENTED IN THIS STATE.

I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR THE JUDGE BUT I EXPECT THE CONCERN GOES SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT TO IDENTIFY SOMEONE AS A VICTIM IS TO CONCLUDE THAT A CRIME WAS COMMITTED AND PERHAPS INDICATE WHO COMMITTED IT.

AND AT THIS TRIAL THE JUDGE'S JOB IS TO ENSURE THAT MR. RITTENHOUSE GETS A FAIR TRIAL AS WELL AS THE STATE GETS A FAIR TRIAL AND TO SAY THE WORD VICTIM MIGHT SUGGEST TO A JURY IS WHETHER A CRIME WAS COMMITTED.

PERHAPS THE COURT IS MAKING AN OPINION ON THAT.

SO THE JUDGE IS ORDERING THAT THE TERM BE NOT USED, I WOULD SAY IN THE INTEREST OF IMPARTIALITY.

NOT UNPRECEDENTED, BUT NOT COMMON.

>> IF CALLING SOMEONE A VICTIM BIASES A JURY AGAINST THE DEFENDANT WHY ISN'T CALLING THEM LOOTERS, RIOTERS BIASED THE OTHER WAY?

>> INDEED AND THAT'S THE CONCERN OVER THE USE OF THOSE TERMS AS OF THIS REPORT AND AS WAS ARGUED IN COURT THAT DAY.

IF THE JUDGE'S POSITION IS THAT YOU SHOULDN'T USE THE TERM VICTIM, SO THERE'S ALREADY BEEN PROOF OF A CRIME, WHY WOULD WE IDENTIFY SOMEONE AS AN ARSONIST UNLESS THERE'S BEEN PROOF THAT THEY'VE BURNED DOWN A BUILDING?

SO AT LEAST -- AND I'M NOT FAMILIAR EXACTLY WITH THE JUDGE'S REASONING ON THIS, BUT BY THAT REASONING, THE RULE WOULD SEEM TO APPLY OR SHOULD PERHAPS APPLY UNIVERSALLY IN A GIVEN CASE.

>> YOU KNOW, BACK TO THE VICTIM THING.

IF SOMEONE IS SHOT DEAD BY GUNFIRE, I JUST FAIL TO UNDERSTAND HOW THEY ARE NOT VICTIMS.

>> WELL, I TEND TO AGREE WITH YOU BY ANY REGULAR USE OF THE TERM VICTIM.

EVEN A PERSON SHOT DEAD IN A JUSTIFIED ACT OF SELF-DEFENSE, THEY'RE STILL A VICTIM OF A GUNSHOT WOUND.

I THINK WHAT THE JUDGE MAY BE DOING IS TAKING EXTRA CARE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE DEFENDANT'S PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE IS NOT BIASED BY A TERM LIKE VICTIM, CONCLUDING OR SUGGESTING THAT THE COURT HAS CONCLUDED THAT A CRIME WAS COMMITTED.

AGAIN, THE JUDGE'S JOB IS TO ENSURE THAT BOTH MR. RITTENHOUSE GETS A FAIR TRIAL AND THE STATE GETS A FAIR TRIAL.

>> CLEARLY KYLE RITTENHOUSE IS CLAIMING SELF-DEFENSE.

HOW HARD WILL IT BE TO CONVINCE THE JURY IT WASN'T SELF-DEFENSE?

>> THE PROSECUTOR'S JOB IS TO PROVE THAT MR. RITTENHOUSE'S ACTIONS WERE UNREASONABLE.

THAT HE FACED GREAT BODILY HARM, THAT'S THE REQUIREMENT, THE STATE WILL HAVE TO PROVE THAT IF HE BELIEVED THAT, THAT THAT WASN'T REASONABLE OR THAT THE AMOUNT OF FORCE THAT HE USED WAS UNREASONABLE IN THAT CIRCUMSTANCE.

AND THE STATE WILL HAVE TO PROVE THAT LIKE EVERY OTHER ELEMENT OF THE OFFENSE, THAT HE CAUSED THE DEATH OF THOSE THAT HE SHOT.

>> SO THE EYES OF THE NATION ARE ON THIS CASE.

IS THAT A CONSIDERATION INSIDE THE COURTROOM?

>> WELL, I THINK REALISTICALLY EVERYBODY IN THE COURTROOM KNOWS THAT.

THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT CASE ABOUT ISSUES THAT ARE HIGHLY CHARGED AND VERY SIGNIFICANT IN OUR SOCIETY.

STILL, THOUGH, EVERYBODY IN THE COURTROOM WILL HAVE TO DO THEIR JOB AND WILL BE FOCUSED.

THE JUDGE'S JOB IS TO ENSURE A FAIR TRIAL.

THE STATE'S JOB TO PROVE EACH ELEMENT OF THE OFFENSE.

AND MR. RITTENHOUSE'S COUNSEL TO DEFEND HIM FROM THE CHARGES.

>> WE LEAVE IT THERE.

LANNY GLINBERG, THANKS VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> THAT IS ALL FOR TONIGHT.

FOR MORE COVERAGE, INCLUDING THIS WEEK'S COVID CONDITIONS, VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT pbswisconsin.org.

I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS WISCONSIN.