The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

>> You're watching "Here& Now".

2024 Election Coverage.

Unremitting presidential narrowing focus to win over Wisconsin voters.

No matter what county they live in.

I'm Frederica Freyberg tonight on here.

And now a look at where the presidential candidates visited and why.

And how candidates intensified rhetoric on immigration falls short of the facts.

And finally, Marquette Law School poll director Charles Franklin has the latest voter opinions.

It's "Here& Now" for October four.

>> Funding for here and Now is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

>> The number of visits to Wisconsin by the presidential candidates is dizzying.

Kamala Harris was back in the state last night, and Donald Trump was in Wisconsin multiple times in the past week, with plans for another visit Sunday "Here& Now".

Reporter Steven Potter ran to keep up.

>> Hello, Wisconsin!

It's great to be back in this beautiful state with three campaign stops in four days.

>> Wisconsin has seen a lot of Donald Trump this week.

On Saturday, the Republican presidential candidate was in Prairie du Chien, explaining his latest plan to address immigration.

will stop the invasion immediately.

We will begin the largest deportation operation in the history of our country.

>> Then he was back in the state on Tuesday for two stops, one in the village of Waunakee in Dane County.

The other in the city of Milwaukee.

At these events, he laid out plans to address economic issues, including reducing taxes for American manufacturing companies.

From 21 to 15% and bringing down the cost of energy.

>> My plan will cut energy prices in half.

Trump's visits this week was their location.

Former Republican Governor Tommy Thompson encouraged Trump to visit the Madison and Milwaukee areas very intentionally.

>> But Dane County has the third most Republican votes in the state of Wisconsin, and all we have to do is increase them and that's up to us, ladies and gentlemen, to carry Dane County up to 30%, not 26%, but 30%.

>> The importance that Wisconsin voters will have on this presidential race resonated.

>> Not to be outdone by Trump's visits to the lion's den of Democrats, Vice President Kamala Harris took her presidential campaign to the city of Ripon on Thursday.

in Ripon, not far as the congresswoman mentioned, from a small building where the Republican Party was born in 1854. would address international conflicts like the war in Ukraine.

>> Democracy and freedom are not only at stake here at home.

They are also at stake around the world.

As president of the United States, I will strengthen, not abdicate America's global leadership.

was joined by former Wyoming Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney, daughter of former Republican Vice President Dick Cheney.

Both Cheney and her father have endorsed Harris.

>> I tell you, I have never voted for a Democrat, but this year I am proudly casting my vote for Vice President Kamala Harris.

appealing to their outnumbered supporters in the Republican and Democratic strongholds of Wisconsin will work for either candidate for now, is an untested strategy.

Reporting from Waunakee.

For "Here& Now", I'm Steven Potter.

>> It's clear immigration is the hot button issue for Republicans, as Donald Trump has proposed increasingly drastic plans to deport undocumented migrants.

Kamala Harris has proposed reviving a bipartisan border bill, which would add more immigration officers and judges.

The question is which plan are voters drawn to?

Here and now?

Reporter Nathan Denzin has more.

>> Please rise for our national anthem.

Republicans are ramping up attacks on Democratic immigration policies as Election Day draws closer.

>> If you think about it, only a mentally disabled person could have allowed this to happen to our country.

Anybody would know this.

>> Over 8.5 million people have been encountered at the southern border since 2021, about 6 million more than during the Trump administration.

Republicans say those immigrants are taking jobs, committing crime and bringing illicit drugs into the country.

A point Trump underscored at a campaign stop in Prairie du Chien.

>> They make our criminals look like babies.

These are stone cold killers.

They walk into your kitchen, they'll cut your throat.

These people are animals.

Now they'll say, oh, that's a terrible thing for him to say.

No, no, these people are animals.

Not only to people at the border, but to immigrants that are already here.

>> Representative Chris Sinicki represents South Milwaukee in the state Assembly, and is also the party chair for the Milwaukee County Democrats.

>> When I watch the news and I see these families, these these mothers with their children walking hundreds of miles to get to the border, they're doing it for a reason.

>> The lives of people in many countries, like Venezuela, Nicaragua.

Their lives have become almost intolerable.

>> Benjamin Marquez is a political scientist at UW-Madison with a focus on immigration and Latino populations.

has always reacted very negatively to large numbers of immigrants coming to the United States.

point now where you're walking down the street and you see people say, oh, you know, he's got brown skin.

I don't trust this man.

color.

The threat is seen as as more intense, as more consequential for the for the fate of the nation.

>> That became particularly clear when Donald Trump falsely claimed Haitian immigrants were eating pets in Springfield, Ohio, during the presidential debate.

the people that live there.

>> Even though these accusations have no basis in fact, it it it flies politically.

hear directly from American citizens about the concerns that they might have.

Not whether it's true or not.

>> Hilario Deleon is the party chair for the Milwaukee County Republicans.

He says concerns over immigration come up frequently when he is out in the community.

people are just making up or they're just, you know what?

I'm just going to roll out of bed and I'm going to just go out there and just blast this entire group of people that are coming in.

>> Polls have shown that Republicans are likely to be much more concerned about immigration than Democrats.

Deleon says he's heard concerns in Milwaukee that undocumented people are receiving help before local neighborhoods.

>> These are people who live in these neighborhoods that feel like that they're being forgotten.

They feel like that their voices aren't being heard and they're being pushed aside.

>> He says concerns include illegal drugs like fentanyl coming in through the southern border and undocumented people committing crime.

But data has shown that most smuggled drugs, including fentanyl, are brought by American citizens through official ports of entry in their vehicles versus by migrants crossing the border.

Undocumented migrants are also much less likely to commit crime or end up in jail than natural U.S. Citizens.

>> They are not going to go out and commit serious crimes because they are hoping to become legal citizens.

If they commit these serious crimes, they cannot become a citizen of the United States.

>> We're already dealing with enough crime as it is with the general population.

A general citizen population here.

Why would we want to add more crime onto that problem already?

>> The Trump plan, if elected, hinges on a policy of mass deportation for the roughly 11 million undocumented migrants in America, the largest deportation operation in the history of our country.

>> I don't think many people have given serious thought to what it would take to deport 11 million people.

deported, Marquez says.

Industries around the country would be hurt.

>> I mean, who's going to process meat in this country?

Who's who's going to work the dairy farms?

>> Studies have found that immigrants often make up more than three quarters of labor on dairy farms.

the jobs that most people don't want to do.

They're they're working in the fields.

They're working in the kitchens, they're cleaning, you know, cleaning up manure.

>> There's all these American citizens here that could use a job.

farm.

I wouldn't I wouldn't last a couple days.

>> Odrcic Dav.

Rohn Odrcic is an immigration attorney who works on asylum cases.

He says Republican rhetoric has been an issue for some time.

>> I'm seeing on one side this intense hate.

I don't know how else to put it.

>> But he also says he hasn't seen much action taken by Democrats.

electoral lens of we need to get people excited.

administration rule that would allow noncitizen spouses and children to stay in America.

That policy was implemented in late August.

>> My question is to the Democrats is why did you enact this in the summer of an election year?

Why wasn't this enacted within the first week of your administration?

>> He says there's a fundamental misunderstanding about how our border and asylum process work, which leads to unproductive political debates.

truly realize that, that how difficult it is to be granted asylum in order to be granted asylum, you have to prove to a judge your situation fits a very narrow definition of why you country.

>> In the interim, federal law allows asylum seekers a temporary status to remain in the U.S.

But even scheduling an appointment with a judge takes years.

>> Earlier this week, I was at the Chicago Asylum office for an interview.

That application was filed in April of 2016, so eight and a half years in January.

>> A bipartisan border bill proposed adding 4300 asylum officers and 100 immigration judges to ease waits.

But Trump came out in opposition to the bill and it was never passed into law.

for that bill.

It was so bad.

>> The problem is that you're looking at the numbers versus the resources that aren't keeping up with the demand.

>> On her campaign website, Vice President Kamala Harris says she would bring back this bill if elected.

She also recently signaled support for keeping even tougher asylum laws enacted by President Biden in June.

Since then, encounters have decreased by about 55%.

>> Democrats cannot afford to be branded as advocating an open border.

Just come on in and you're and you're and you're home free.

>> Only time will tell which plan voters prefer and if the winner will actually improve are there are many.

>> As the presidential campaign speeds toward the finish line, political rhetoric coming from Donald Trump around immigration and immigrants is more and more incendiary.

What does that make them feel like?

The president of the company where Trump appeared Tuesday and Waunakee responded to that question on behalf of his largely Hispanic workforce.

>> They're legal workers in this country.

Some are citizens, some are working on citizenship.

But but legal.

They don't like being painted in that same brush for a look at the state as a whole and its Hispanic workforce, we turn to Jorge Franco, CEO of the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce of Wisconsin, and thanks very much for being here.

>> A pleasure to be with you, Frederica.

Thank you.

>> So as to that question, what is it like for Hispanic people in Wisconsin to hear Donald Trump's call for mass deportation and how he refers to immigrants?

>> Well, you know, it's an election season.

And I think we've all grown accustomed, especially when you've been around the block the way I have.

You're all accustomed to the rhetoric that that comes out at these times.

You know, some some take it over the top and, you know, when we think back on and the first time he entered the race, he of course he entered with a bang.

If you remember the escalator, visit and I think many were, were, you know, thoughtful about what was heard at the time.

And, and border security is very important to all of us.

You know, we as Hispanics are our concerns are very similar to many others.

Economy.

You know, who doesn't want a, you know, a good economy.

That's a big focus for us.

But but we it's interesting.

We've grown accustomed to what we hear and it comes from both sides really.

But and in our case with the chamber, I should say we're a friend to everybody.

We don't pick one or the other or but we do.

We do have our opinions and we and we're smart about what's going on in the economy.

And we know how to navigate these things.

>> What is your message to Wisconsin about the importance of our immigrant workforce, especially in dairy and agriculture?

economy.

If immigrants were to be gone tomorrow, just in no sectors.

And we're not saying that's the only sectors they work in.

They're in manufacturing.

They're in many aspects of the many, many sectors of the state economy.

But just in those two alone, if they were gone tomorrow, our economy would tank.

We're so dependent on the workforce.

And just look at the numbers in the last, you know, over the past year, I think we've been as high as 10 million vacancies in in America.

And of course, you know, we're not the immigration cops at the Hispanic chamber.

And that's not of concern to us.

We help anyone and everybody who walks through the door, even non-Hispanics.

But the point is, if the Hispanic immigrants working in those two industries alone were to be gone tomorrow, our economy in Wisconsin would tank.

We're so dependent on dairy and agriculture.

>> Are these workers in Wisconsin undocumented?

undocumented.

We refer to them as unauthorized.

But the answer to that question is yes, there are there are many.

And that's not just in the United States.

And then there are immigrants who are authorized.

They're refugees.

And so it's a complexity of issues that emerge and come up.

But the big issue is whether or not, you know, someone's taking somebody's job away and that, you know, that those kinds of things under most effective public policy can be addressed because we need the human capital.

It's just statistically what's going on in in the US economy and certainly in the Wisconsin economy.

And our GDP would take a big hit absent that human capital today that some call undocumented, what we call unauthorized immigrants.

The big issue is workforce.

It's where are we going to find workers.

And of course, the Hispanic population on average is youthful, 9 to 10 years younger on average than the white population in America.

And many people don't realize that the unauthorized population, immigrant population pays taxes.

ultimate entrepreneurial act to leave your country in search of work.

How so?

>> Absolutely.

If you think about it for a moment, you know, we the Hispanic culture is highly entrepreneurial and we have employers coming to us every day asking us to send them Hispanic workers because of the Hispanic work ethic.

And we remind them, wait a minute, you understand we can't and you can't decide on whether you hire somebody or not based on race, religion, creed, color, whatever it may be.

And you have to be careful with that too.

However, if you are interested in us helping solve your workforce development issues, we can and do do that.

But it has to be done properly and in a regulatory compliant manner.

to the issue, you know, we're we're we're talking about it.

There are just the good news is that there are solutions that could be implemented today.

And regardless of who wins the election, we hope to work with those parties to get something put in place that works for everybody.

much.

much.

Bye bye.

>> Leading up to November, a number of bipartisan groups have been holding events across the state to preemptively quell concerns about potential voter fraud.

One bipartisan group of Wisconsin's former Republican and Democratic members of Congress held one such event in La Crosse this week to discuss and answer questions about election integrity and security.

>> I will tell you, the last place on earth any illegal immigrant wants to be is at a government operation where they might be captured and deported.

They are not voting now.

You talked about non-citizens, but there are legal immigrants that are non-citizens.

And that's where you typically have the disconnect where they have to track it.

But the idea that someone who came through the border six months ago is going in to vote is to me.

I look at it and think, that is like the most absurd idea and one out of just not understanding how these undocumented workers that are moving about this underground economy in the US operate.

They do not want to be caught.

They're not coming in to vote.

They just aren't.

>> In the latest Marquette Law School poll, Democratic candidates Harris and Baldwin are up on their Republican challengers.

We get the numbers now from poll director Charles Franklin.

And Charles, thanks very much for being here.

Good to be here.

So as we headlined Kamala Harris polls, 52% to 48% for Donald Trump.

Now these are the same numbers as last month.

So nothing's moving the needle.

>> Not much in the near term.

Back in July, after Harris first got in the race, it was Trump by one point with registered voters, Harris by one point with likely voters.

That has moved to a four point Harris lead, which is then repeated in this latest poll.

You know, remember we were off by four points in 2020.

So if you subtract that four points, we could be dead tied.

If we're has have as big an error as we did in 2020.

Of course, I hope that our poll is more accurate this time.

>> So in the US Senate race, incumbent Tammy Baldwin is at 53% to Eric Hovde, 46%.

How does this compare to your last poll?

>> This is an increase.

It was a four point Baldwin lead in early September.

7% now over the whole course of the campaign, we've seen earlier polls as close as four or as wide as seven.

And we did have one result with likely voters.

That was 50 over 50, though that was early in the campaign, and we haven't seen a similarly close race there.

>> Do you have any idea what might explain her pulling ahead like this?

>> Well, she's been strong all year as Democrats quite unified behind her, but also doing well with independents.

In the last two polls, though, she's increased her advantage with independents.

I think that's helping explain how we've gotten to a four or now a seven point lead.

Hovde on the other hand, is unifying Republicans so there's less of a crossover vote than there was way back in the early spring.

interesting question about to each other about politics.

And 46% said they had.

Now, you note that this is higher than in the past two election cycles.

Does this surprise you, though, given the rhetoric out there?

>> Not given the rhetoric you would expect.

We're more polarized by a whole lot of measures, but we've asked this.

We originally asked it just before the gubernatorial recall in 2012 and then in 16 and in 20.

And those three times we've asked have been 34, 35 and 36% stop talking.

So a ten point increase this year, I think, does tell us a little bit about a more polarized, more personalized politics.

>> So on enthusiasm to vote, which is a super important measure.

The overall enthusiasm to vote is very high at 67%, with Democrats even more so at 71%.

And it has jumped the most for independents, 50% of whom in this latest poll say they are enthusiastic to vote.

>> Yeah, independents had been lagging in the 30 seconds all year.

This is the first time we've seen a big bump up with them.

I think that means, in part, that they're beginning to tune into the race.

Unlike Partizans, they're not sitting rooting for a candidate since January and are now getting more engaged.

But early in the year, Republican enthusiasm was well higher than Democratic enthusiasm.

With the change of candidates, Democrats moved up almost catching Republicans in July, and moved ahead in early September.

Now, Republicans have moved up as well and closed that gap.

A very small Democratic advantage.

But now both parties look as mobilized as they were in 2020.

That suggests we'll see a similarly high turnout in November, as we did in 2020.

>> Talking about the independent vote, when you consider that 61% of independents say they support Harris, compared to 39% for Trump, is that an important measure?

measure.

There are only about 12% of voters that call themselves independents that aren't closer to either party.

Independents had favored Trump through the spring, and still favored Trump by a little bit in July, when Harris was first in the race.

But we now have two polls in a row with independent support, around 60% for Harris.

You always worry with independents because they can change their mind.

They're a fickle group that because they don't have party loyalties, they may shift and now could shift again.

But seeing two polls in a row with that significant uptick and strong Harris support, I think is important and it helps account for why Harris is up by four points instead of two points or one point.

>> So on the issues Trump wins again on immigration, the Israel-hamas war and the economy, while Harris wins on fair and accurate elections, Medicare and Social Security, abortion policy and health care.

And yet the economy, of course, remains the singular most important issue to voters.

But is the economy as ruinous as the GOP is telling us it is right now?

>> The economy is pretty good.

We've we've seen good job reports and the dockworkers strike just settled.

So there are positive economic indicators.

But the negativity about the economy is still pretty high.

We're getting I think it's about 30% in this poll, say the economy is doing poorly.

Only 38% say it's excellent or good.

So that's a pretty poor picture of the economy.

The fact that people still say the economy is the most important issue, and that Trump has about an eight point advantage on that issue, is why this race is still close and why Donald Trump could still win this race on the most important issue, even though Harris has advantages on abortion and on personal traits, she's seen as having the right temperament to be president.

And Trump is not.

So it's we've got conflicting forces here.

The economy being a real strength for Trump.

>> Lastly, with less than a minute left, you did another question about property taxes versus school spending.

56% of respondents say reducing property taxes is more important than increasing funding for schools, which sits at 44%.

Big shift.

longer period of time.

In 2018, those numbers were almost exactly the opposite.

High 50s favoring schools, low 40s or even 39% saying property taxes was more important.

And those numbers have moved steadily over these last six years until they've completely reversed.

So this and I would say that was after support for schools built from 2012 through 2018.

So we've really ridden this cycle up with support for schools.

We've now written it down and concern for property taxes now higher levels than what we saw in 2012, 2013.

>> All right.

We'll leave it there.

Charles Franklin, thanks very much.

Thank you for more on this and other issues facing Wisconsin, visit our web site at PBS Wisconsin.

Org and then click on the news tab to see all of our election coverage.

Visit Wisconsin Vote.org.

That's our program for tonight I'm Frederica Freyberg.

Have a good weekend.

>> Funding for "Here& Now" is provided by the Focus Fund for provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.