♪ MUSIC REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM THE HEALY FOUNDATION, TAOS, NM.

HELLO, I'M LORENE MILLS, AND WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

I'M DELIGHTED THAT OUR GUEST IS RETURNING, OUR GUEST IS MICHAEL S. VIGIL.

THANK YOU FOR COMING BACK, I LEARN SO MUCH FROM YOU.

>>MICHAEL: WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH, LORENE, IT'S ALWAYS A GREAT HONOR FOR ME TO BE ON YOUR PROGRAM.

>>LORENE: WELL, YOU EDUCATE US IN SOME HARD THINGS, AND I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT.

LET ME TALK A LITTLE ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND, YOU'RE THE FORMER CHIEF OF INTERNATIONAL OPERATIONS FOR THE DEA, THE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION, AND YOU ARE A HIGHLY DECORATED AGENT RESPONSIBLE FOR NUMEROUS MULTINATIONAL OPERATIONS, INCLUDING THE LARGEST ONE, WHICH HAD 36 COUNTRIES INVOLVED.

>>MICHAEL: THIRTY-SIX COUNTRIES, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ALL THE COUNTRIES IN THE CARIBBEAN, MEXICO, THE SEVEN CENTRAL AMERICAN COUNTRIES, AND THEN ALL THE COUNTRIES IN SOUTH AMERICA.

IT WAS REALLY A GREAT OPERATION, ALL OF THE COUNTRIES CAME THROUGH, AND THEY DID A GREAT JOB IN SHARING INFORMATION WITH ONE ANOTHER.

>>LORENE: THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT, THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT.

SO, BUT YOU'RE A HOMETOWN BOY, I JUST LOVE IT.

YOU GREW UP IN ESPAÑOLA.

>>MICHAEL: I DID.

>>LORENE: AND THEN YOU WENT TO NMSU, NEW MEXICO STATE, AND GOT A DEGREE IN CRIMINOLOGY.

>>MICHAEL: THAT'S CORRECT.

>>LORENE: WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST, WHAT DREW YOU TO CRIMINOLOGY?

>>MICHAEL: WELL, WHEN I WAS A YOUNG CHILD, I USED TO WATCH THESE OLD COP MOVIES, LIKE, THE UNTOUCHABLES , YOU KNOW, AND THE FBI , AND THEN DRAGNET .

SO THAT PIQUED MY INTEREST AT A VERY, VERY EARLY AGE TO GET INTO LAW ENFORCEMENT AND I'M REALLY HAPPY THAT I DID, BECAUSE IT WAS REALLY A REWARDING CAREER FOR ME.

I LEARNED SO MUCH ABOUT DIFFERENT COUNTRIES CULTURES, AND I DEVELOPED LIFELONG RELATIONSHIPS WITH A LOT OF MY COUNTERPARTS.

>>LORENE: DO YOU MISS BEING ACTIVE, ARE YOU RETIRED?

I DON'T THINK YOU COULD EVER REALLY COMPLETELY RETIRE BECAUSE YOU HAVE THIS NETWORK OF PEOPLE.

>>MICHAEL: I'VE NEVER REALLY RETIRED AND I AM NOT ONE OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO CAN SIT AT HOME AND WATCH THE FOUR WALLS.

I HAVE TO BE DOING SOMETHING AND NOW I WRITE BOOKS, AND THEN I GIVE ALMOST DAILY INTERVIEWS THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE PLANET.

I'VE BEEN GIVING INTERVIEWS NONSTOP, GET THIS, FOR OVER 22 YEARS.

>>LORENE: WELL, ALSO MULTILINGUAL INTERVIEWS, BECAUSE A LOT OF YOUR WORK IS WITH SPANISH-SPEAKING COUNTRIES.

YOU ARE A PRODIGIOUS AUTHOR, I HAVE TWO OF THE BOOKS HERE.

ONE IS CALLED DEAL, D-E-A-L , AND THIS ONE, I CAN ONLY CARRY A COUPLE, DRUG CAPO.

YOUR OTHER ONES ARE NARCO QUEEN, THE CLAW OF THE DRAGON, THAT'S ANOTHER GOOD ONE.

I WILL TELL YOU, THEY ARE SUCH COMPELLING READS, NO ONE THAT I'VE RECOMMENDED THESE TO HAVE SAID, WELL, I COULDN'T FINISH IT.

THEY CAN'T WAIT TO FINISH IT, THEY'RE JUST ZIPPING THROUGH IT, YOU'RE A GOOD WRITER.

>>MICHAEL: YEAH, WELL, THE THING IS THAT, YOU KNOW, I TELL A LOT OF MY EXPERIENCE IN THESE BOOKS, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE FICTIONAL, A LOT OF THEM ARE FICTIONAL, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE BASED ON MY EXPERIENCES IN MEXICO, AROUND THE WORLD, AFGHANISTAN.

A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY, WELL, YOU PUT A LOT OF THINGS IN THERE THAT DRUG TRAFFICKING ORGANIZATIONS CAN USE AND I COUNTER THAT, AND I SAY, WELL, IT'S TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC.

THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON, IT'S NOT THE LOCAL DRUG DEALER ON THE CORNER.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MAJOR CARTELS THAT OPERATE IN SIX OF THE SEVEN CONTINENTS, THEY'RE MULTINATIONAL, NOT ONLY DO THEY ENGAGE IN DRUGS, BUT OTHER CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES.

SO IT'S MY WAY OF EDUCATING THE PUBLIC BECAUSE THEY NEED TO KNOW, YOU KNOW, THE POWERFUL CARTELS THAT EXIST OUT IN THE WORLD.

>>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY, AND I JUST WANT TO MENTION SOME FACTS ABOUT NEW MEXICO SO PEOPLE WILL REALIZE WHY THIS IS SO IMPORTANT.

WE'RE NUMBER 50, THE WORST STATE IN THE NATION FOR CHILD WELL-BEING, WE'RE NUMBER 50, THE LAST IN THE NATION FOR EDUCATION, AND NUMBER 49 FOR THE ECONOMIC WELL-BEING OF CHILDREN, 22% OF OUR KIDS LIVE IN TOTAL POVERTY.

>>MICHAEL: THAT IS TRUE.

>>LORENE: YES, AND THEN NUMBER 46 IN HEALTH, BUT THE SCARY PART IS, FOR CRIME STATISTICS, WE ARE NUMBER TWO IN VIOLENT CRIME AND NUMBER ONE IN PROPERTY CRIME.

SO WHERE IS THE RELATIONSHIP THERE, ARE PEOPLE COMMITTING VIOLENT CRIME AND PROPERTY CRIME TO GET MONEY FOR DRUGS AND WHAT'S THE INTEREST THERE?

>>MICHAEL: THAT IS CORRECT.

AND YOU KNOW, ONE THING YOU LEARN ABOUT DRUG TRAFFICKING, LORENE, IS THAT DRUG VIOLENCE AND PROPERTY CRIME, COLLATERAL CRIMES, GO HAND IN HAND WITH DRUG TRAFFICKING.

A LOT OF INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE ADDICTED TO DRUGS CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY THEM BECAUSE NOBODY'S GOING TO HIRE THEM, SO THEY HAVE NO JOBS.

THE FAMILIES USUALLY CUT THEM OFF BECAUSE THEY'RE STEALING FROM THEM AND SO THEY HAVE TO ENGAGE IN THEFT TO SUPPORT THEIR HABITS.

SO THERE'S A WIDE GAP BETWEEN THE GOOD THINGS AND THE BAD THINGS HERE IN NEW MEXICO, BECAUSE WE'RE NUMBER ONE IN DRUG OVERDOSE DEATHS IN THE COUNTRY, WE ARE NUMBER ONE IN DRUG ABUSE PROBLEMS IN THE COUNTRY, WE ARE NUMBER ONE IN TEENAGE DRUG ABUSE IN THE COUNTRY.

IN TERMS OF ADULTS IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO, WE'RE NUMBER THREE, SO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE MAJOR PROBLEMS AND IF I WANT TO TELL YOU, WITH ALL THESE STATISTICS, NEW MEXICO, WITH THE DRUG PROBLEM AND THE CRIME PROBLEMS, WE ARE AT A STAGE FOUR.

IF WE WERE DEALING WITH CANCER, THIS WOULD BE STAGE FOUR.

THIS IS A WAKE-UP CALL FOR NEW MEXICO TO DEAL WITH THIS PROBLEM, WE NEED A COMPREHENSIVE, COHESIVE STRATEGY.

DRUG TRAFFICKERS, YOU KNOW, ARE QUICK TO ADAPT TO ATTACKS BY LAW ENFORCEMENT AND WE NEED TO BE AS FLUID AS THE DRUG TRAFFICKING ORGANIZATIONS, AND WE'RE NOT.

I DON'T SEE A STRATEGY HERE IN NEW MEXICO, I DON'T WANT TO BE CRITICAL, BECAUSE IT'S MY HOME STATE, BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT WE HAVE NO STRATEGY.

THE ONLY STRATEGY IS, IF THERE'S A PROBLEM, WE SEND NEW MEXICO STATE POLICE PEOPLE TO PATROL IN THAT AREA FOR MAYBE 15 DAYS OR WE SEND THE NATIONAL GUARD, AND THERE'S NO DETECTABLE CHANGE WHEN THAT HAPPENS.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN EXPENDITURE, ESPECIALLY DEPLOYING THE NATIONAL GUARD, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A STATE WHICH IS HIGHLY RURAL AND THE POLICE FORCES OR THE SHERIFF'S OFFICES IN A LOT OF THESE TOWNS AND VILLAGES DON'T HAVE A NARCOTICS UNIT.

THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH NARCOTICS AND THEREFORE, THEY'VE ALREADY LOST THE BATTLE.

BUT THERE ARE WAYS THAT YOU CAN COVER THAT, BUT ONE OF THE KEYS IS, I WOULD HOPE THAT NEW MEXICO WOULD DEVELOP COMPREHENSIVE INTELLIGENCE CENTER, WHERE ALL THE AGENCIES WOULD SEND IN THEIR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTS, THEIR INTELLIGENCE REPORTS, YOU WOULD HAVE ANALYSTS THAT WOULD LOOK AT THEM, PUT THEM INTO A WORKABLE FORM, WHICH WOULD ALLOW THE INVESTIGATORS TO DO A BETTER JOB, TO DO A BETTER JOB IN TERMS OF THE RESOURCES THAT THEY USE TO ATTACK THOSE PROBLEMS.

>>LORENE: BUT ALSO FOR HARM REDUCTION, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE FOR ACTUAL HARM REDUCTION AND THE OTHER THING, ONE OF THE REASONS I WANTED TO DO THIS SHOW WITH YOU, IS DRUG EDUCATION.

IT'S JUST NOT, IT TURNS OUT THAT THROWING THESE PEOPLE IN JAIL HASN'T AFFECTED POSITIVELY THE DRUG PROBLEM AT ALL, SO, I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE MUCH MORE COMMUNITY AWARENESS AND THE FAMILIES NEED TO BE EDUCATED TO NOT KICK THE OFFENDER OUT.

HE'S PROBABLY BEEN STEALING FROM YOU, WHO KNOWS WHAT, BUT TO LET THE COMMUNITY AND THE FAMILY EMBRACE THEM AND FEEL CONNECTED TO SOMETHING.

>>MICHAEL: WELL, THERE'S SO MANY THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE, AND YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD.

YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF DEALING WITH DRUG ADDICTION, HARM REDUCTION SAVES A LOT OF LIVES.

FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE A HUGE FENTANYL PROBLEM HERE IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO, AND TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA, IS THAT NEW MEXICO IS THE ONLY STATE IN THE UNION WHERE DRUG OVERDOSE DEATHS HAVE NOT DECLINED LIKE IN MOST OF THE COUNTRY UNDER JOE BIDEN, BECAUSE THIS ALL STARTED IN JOE BIDEN'S LAST YEAR, 2024.

THERE WAS A 27% REDUCTION IN OVERDOSE DEATHS, WE WERE SUFFERING ABOUT 110,000 OVERDOSE DEATHS IN THE NATION AND THEN THAT DROPPED TO SLIGHTLY OVER 79,000, A 27% DROP.

BUT NEW MEXICO, ON THE CONTRARY, DRUG OVERDOSE DEATHS SPIKED AND WHEN YOU TAKE A LOOK AT 2015, THE DRUG OVERDOSE DEATHS DEALING WITH FENTANYL WERE ABOUT 15% OF THE OVERDOSE DEATHS IN THE STATE.

THEN IN 2025, COMING INTO 2026, THAT SKYROCKETED BY 85%.

85%.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO SATURATE THE STATE WITH HARM REDUCTION PROPERTIES, I'M TALKING ABOUT NALOXONE, BETTER KNOWN AS NARCAN, THAT REVERSES OPIOID OVERDOSES TO INCLUDE SYNTHETIC OPIOIDS LIKE FENTANYL.

THEN SECONDLY, WE NEED TO GIVE DRUG ADDICTS, FOR EXAMPLE, CLEAN NEEDLES TO PREVENT DISEASE AND THEN THIRDLY, ANOTHER IMPORTANT FACTOR IS THAT THE DRUG CARTELS MIX FENTANYL WITH COCAINE, WITH HEROIN, WITH METHAMPHETAMINES, SO THE USERS ARE UNAWARE THAT THEY'RE CONSUMING FENTANYL.

>>LORENE: AND THEY DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH.

>>MICHAEL: SO TEST STRIPS ARE REALLY VALUABLE FOR THEM BECAUSE THEY CAN TAKE THEIR DRUG OF CHOICE, TEST THAT DRUG, AND IF THEY DETERMINE THERE'S FENTANYL, THEY CAN THROW IT AWAY AND PREVENT THEMSELVES FROM DYING FROM A HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE OVERDOSE.

THEN THE OTHER THING, AS YOU MENTIONED, LORENE, PUBLIC AWARENESS IS KEY.

THAT SHOULD BE THE BEDROCK, THE FOUNDATION FOR DEALING WITH THIS DRUG PROBLEM BECAUSE WE NEED TO MAKE THE PUBLIC AWARE OF WHAT'S GOING ON SO THAT THEY CAN BETTER UNDERSTAND IT AND ALSO PARTICIPATE IN ADDRESSING THAT PROBLEM.

THE OTHER THING ALSO IS DRUG EDUCATION, EVEN TODAY, A POLICE OFFICER OR A HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONAL WILL GO TO THE SCHOOLS AND THEY'LL TALK TO THE KIDS, WHICH IS GOOD, BUT IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

YOU NEED TO HAVE DRUG EDUCATION AS PART OF OUR CURRICULUM HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

WE NEED TO TEACH OUR CHILDREN THE EVILS OF USING ILLEGAL DRUGS FROM THE TIME THEY ENTER SCHOOL THROUGH JUNIOR HIGH AND HIGH SCHOOL.

IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK TO HAVE A FIRST RESPONDER OR A HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONAL GO AND TALK TO THEM FOR A DAY OUT OF THE YEAR, THAT'S A BAND-AID REMEDY.

>>LORENE: WELL, WE'RE SPEAKING TODAY WITH MICHAEL S. VIGIL AND ABOUT HIS BOOK D.E.A.L.

AND DRUG CAPO AND YOUR MANY, MANY BOOKS.

I'VE LEARNED SO MUCH FROM THEM.

HOW DID FENTANYL, WHY IS FENTANYL ALL THAT, WHY IS IT THE DRUG THAT'S ABUSED SO MUCH?

AND I KNOW THAT THE PRECURSOR MATERIALS COME FROM CHINA, AND THEY'RE SENT TO LABS IN MEXICO THAT PRODUCE FLOODS OF FENTANYL.

I THINK THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OPENED UP ALBUQUERQUE TO FLOODS OF FENTANYL SO THEY COULD TRACK IF THE CARTELS WERE INVOLVED IN ANYTHING.

EVEN THE GOVERNOR SAID, NO, DO NOT FLOOD OUR PEOPLE, BECAUSE GOD KNOWS HOW MANY DEATHS, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER WAY TO DEAL WITH THIS.

>>MICHAEL: WELL, I'LL TAKE THIRTY SECONDS TO DO THIS, BUT HERE'S THE ISSUE.

THIS OPIOID EPIDEMIC STARTED WITH PURDUE PHARMA, THE SACKLER FAMILY, AND IT WAS WITH OXYCONTIN, AND THAT INITIATED IT IN THE LATTER PART OF THE 1990S.

THEN THAT SHIFTED INTO HEROIN AROUND 2010 AND THEN THAT WENT INTO FENTANYL AROUND 2013.

YOU'RE RIGHT, MOST OF THE PRECURSOR CHEMICALS COME FROM CHINA, AND THEY'RE SHIPPED VIA MARITIME CONTAINER SHIP, PRIMARILY THROUGH THE PACIFIC INTO THE PORTS OF MANZANILLO IN THE STATE OF LÁZARO CÁRDENAS, I'M SORRY, IT'S LÁZARO CÁRDENAS IN THE STATE OF MICHOACÁN AND THEN ALSO MANZANILLO IN THE STATE OF COLIMA.

AND THE SELLERS IN CHINA WILL MISLABEL THE CONTAINERS TO MAKE IT APPEAR LIKE THEY'RE CHEMICALS, LET'S SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, TO MANUFACTURE COSMETICS.

THE LABORATORIES CONSIST OF METAL TUBS, AND I CRINGE WHEN PEOPLE SAY, WELL, IT'S A SUPER LAB.

IT'S NOT A SUPER LAB.

>>LORENE: IT'S GUYS WITH A BROOM HANDLE.

>>MICHAEL: YOU CAN BUY ONE OF THOSE TUBS AT LOWE'S FOR THIRTY DOLLARS.

THEY MIX THE CHEMICALS, THESE PEOPLE HAVE NO TRAINING, BUT THEY LEARN BY BEING APPRENTICES, AND THEY MIX THE CHEMICALS WITH A STICK, AND THEY CAN EITHER TABLET THE FENTANYL, BUT HERE IN NEW MEXICO, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE SEEING IS POWDERED FENTANYL, MOST OF THE FENTANYL BEING FOUND HERE IS POWDERED FENTANYL, AND THEY'RE LACING IT WITH OTHER DRUGS.

>>LORENE: RIGHT, BECAUSE YOU SAID TEST STRIPS FOR THE USERS TO SEE IS THIS REALLY FENTANYL OR IS THIS REALLY METHEDRINE OR IS IT REALLY COCAINE, AND IT'S NOT CUT WITH FENTANYL.

>>MICHAEL: AND THEN YOU MENTIONED THE ISSUE IS THAT DEA HERE IN NEW MEXICO HAD A CASE DEALING WITH FENTANYL TRAFFICKERS, AND APPARENTLY THE U.S.

ATTORNEY AT THAT TIME SAID, WELL, WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO GET HIGHER TRAFFICKERS BY LETTING MILLIONS, THEY TALK ABOUT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS, IT WAS IN THE MILLIONS OF FENTANYL, AND THAT'S DESPITE THEIR SLOGAN OF ONE PILL KILLS AND THEY LET IT WALK.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FENTANYL, WHERE TWO MILLIGRAMS CAN BE LETHAL TO A HUMAN BEING, FENTANYL IS FIFTY TIMES STRONGER THAN HEROIN, A HUNDRED TIMES STRONGER THAN MORPHINE, AND I'M SURE THAT LED TO A LOT OF DEATHS.

THERE WAS A WHISTLEBLOWER FROM DEA THAT PUT THAT OUT, SO, YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNOR HAD A PROBLEM.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS TRYING TO GET INFORMATION FROM JUSTICE, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT THEY'RE COOPERATING, BUT THAT WAS A HUGE MISTAKE, AND ON THOSE WIRES, THEY DID IT TO PROTECT THE WIRETAP.

YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET A CHAPO GUZMÁN OR A PABLO ESCOBAR TALKING ON PHONES HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE, SO THAT WAS A HORRIBLE MISTAKE.

>>LORENE: SO, NEW MEXICO, THIS IS A REAL PROBLEM FOR US, AND I DON'T KNOW IF PEOPLE ARE REALLY ACKNOWLEDGING THE EXTENT AND THE DAMAGE THAT IT'S DONE FOR US, LEADING THE NATION IN OVERDOSE DEATHS.

WHO'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE THIS, IS IT THE FEDS, IS IT THE STATE, IS IT MUNICIPALITIES LIKE ALBUQUERQUE, DO THEY HAVE A DRUG DEPARTMENT, YOU KNOW, A NARCOTICS DIVISION?

>>MICHAEL: YEAH, A LOT OF THE LARGER CITIES HAVE NARCOTIC SECTIONS LIKE SANTA FE, ALBUQUERQUE, THE BIGGER PLACES, BUT NOT THE SMALLER ONES.

THAT'S WHY IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THEY POOL RESOURCES TOGETHER.

WHAT I WOULD DO IS, I WOULD DIVIDE THE STATE INTO QUADRANTS, AND I WOULD PUT HOWEVER MANY MOBILE ENFORCEMENT TEAMS ARE NEEDED TO MULTI-AGENCY TASK FORCES TO WORK TOGETHER AND THEN I WOULD HAVE SMALL MOBILE TRAINING TEAMS THAT COULD PROVIDE TRAINING TO THESE LITTLE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES RATHER THAN BRINGING THEM TO THE STATE POLICE ACADEMY, BECAUSE A LOT OF THEM DON'T HAVE THOSE BUDGETS.

AND THEY WOULD FIND OUT WHAT THEY NEED IN TERMS OF TRAINING PROVIDED, AND THEN A CENTRALIZED, STATE-CENTRIC INTELLIGENCE CENTER.

THERE'S ONE THAT IS A HIDEOUT, YOU KNOW, IN THE HIGH-INTENSITY DRUG TRAFFICKING AREA IN LAS CRUCES, BUT IT'S RUN BY THE FEDS, AND THE FEDS DON'T ALWAYS SHARE INFORMATION WITH THE LOCALS, SO IT'S GOT TO BE FOCUSED ON STATE, LOCAL, AND MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT.

THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE, BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE LUXURY, LORENE, OF ENGAGING IN STATUS QUO LAW ENFORCEMENT.

WE HAVE TO BE PROACTIVE, WE HAVE TO BE FLUENT, AND WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO DEVELOP, CHANGE, AND MODIFY OUR STRATEGIES ON A DIME.

>>LORENE: SO, ARE THERE ANY LAWMAKERS THAT HAVE BEEN CHAMPIONS OF DRUG EDUCATION AND DRUG ADDICTION BEING TREATED AS A MEDICAL PROBLEM, NOT A LEGAL PROBLEM?

DO WE HAVE ANY LEADERS IN THIS STATE, IF YOU DON'T, I JUST SPRUNG THAT QUESTION ON YOU.

>>MICHAEL: I DON'T KNOW OF ANY, AND I APOLOGIZE IF I DON'T KNOW THEM, BUT THE FACT IS THAT IT SHOULD BE A CONCERTED EFFORT BY OUR ENTIRE LEGISLATURE.

I DON'T CARE IF THEY'RE REPUBLICAN OR THEY'RE DEMOCRAT, WE NEED TO MOVE NOW.

WE ARE RUNNING WAY BEHIND THE POWER CURVE, AND THE THING IS THAT I FEEL BAD BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF CHILDREN THAT ARE GOING TO BE ADDICTED.

IT'S GOING TO DESTROY THEIR FUTURE, IT'S GOING TO DESTROY THE FUTURE OF NOT ONLY THE UNITED STATES BUT ALSO NEW MEXICO, WE SPEND A LOT OF MONEY ON FRIVOLOUS THINGS.

LET'S HELP OUR YOUTH, YOU KNOW, OUR YOUTH IS OUR FUTURE, AND IF WE ALLOW POISONOUS DRUGS TO DESTROY THEM, WE HAVE NO FUTURE.

>>LORENE: SO DRUG EDUCATION REALLY NEEDS TO BE SUPPORTED, MAYBE STARTING IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, ESPECIALLY FOURTH, FIFTH, AND SIXTH GRADE, AND THEN DEFINITELY IN JUNIOR HIGH AND REALLY IN HIGH SCHOOL.

BUT AGAIN, I THINK THE WAY THAT IT'S PRESENTED AS EDUCATION, NOT PUNITIVE, NOT IF WE CATCH YOU WITH A JOINT IN YOUR POCKET, YOU'RE GOING TO JAIL.

>>MICHAEL: IT'S GO TO BE FOR EVERYBODY.

>>LORENE: IT'S SAYING, YOU KNOW, WHERE DID YOU GET THIS, AND HAVE YOU HAD EXPERIENCE WITH OTHER DRUGS, AND WE WANT TO HELP YOU, WITH A LOVING AND SOMEWHAT MEDICAL APPROACH INSTEAD OF, THAT'S IT, FIVE YEARS IN THE SLAMMER, WHERE THEY ARE COMPLETELY EDUCATED ABOUT DRUGS BUT FROM THE WRONG SIDE.

>>MICHAEL: YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS A SMALL CHILD, REMEMBER "LIFE" MAGAZINE?

YOU KNOW, I WOULD READ ARTICLES WHEN I WAS JUST A YOUNGSTER, ABOUT PEOPLE GOING TO PRISON FOR TWENTY YEARS FOR A MARIJUANA CIGARETTE, IT WAS LUDICROUS.

DRUG ADDICTION IS A HEALTH CRISIS, IT'S A PROBLEM, IT'S NOT A CRIME, AND IT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH MORAL ISSUES, IT'S A HEALTH PROBLEM.

>>LORENE: CAN YOU, IN ONE MINUTE, TELL US WHAT YOU SUGGEST WE DO.

>>MICHAEL: YEAH, WHAT I WOULD RECOMMEND IS THAT THE LEGISLATORS GET TOGETHER, AGAIN WITH OUR EDUCATORS, WITH OUR SUPERINTENDENTS, WITH OUR PRINCIPALS, AND YOU CAN START SMALL.

YOU CAN START HERE IN SANTA FE, ALBUQUERQUE, ESPAÑOLA, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO IT IN A BLANKET-TYPE APPROACH, BUT START IT.

START IT, AND THEN YOU CAN ALSO TAKE A LOOK AT THE ISSUES YOU HAVE TO CONTEND WITH AND FIX THEM AS YOU MOVE FORWARD.

BUT, YOU KNOW, HERE'S THE THING, WE HAVE TO TAKE THE FIRST STEP, WE CAN'T BE WAITING, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE FEEL THAT SOME OF THESE THINGS ARE DIFFICULT TO ACCOMPLISH.

THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT.

YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS WITH DEA, I DID OPERATIONS INVOLVING THIRTY-SIX COUNTRIES AND GOT THEM ALL TO WORK TOGETHER, SHARE INFORMATION, AND WORK COHESIVELY, AND THAT WENT A LONG WAY.

>>LORENE: WE'RE OUT OF TIME, BUT I WANT TO THANK OUR GUEST, MICHAEL S. VIGIL, AND I REALLY RECOMMEND HIS BOOKS.

THIS IS ONE CALLED D.E.A.L.

AND ANOTHER ONE, DRUG CAPO.

YOU CAN LEARN SO MUCH FROM READING THESE BOOKS AND THEN LOOKING AROUND YOU AND UNDERSTANDING THAT WE HAVE TO TREAT THIS MORE AS A MEDICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH SITUATION, NOT NECESSARILY CRIMINAL.

BUT THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>MICHAEL: WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH, LORENE, IT'S ALWAYS A PLEASURE.

I LOVE YOUR OUTFIT, YOU LOOK VERY NICE, SO, UNTIL NEXT TIME.

>>LORENE: UNTIL NEXT TIME.

>>MICHAEL: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME ON YOUR PROGRAM.

>>LORENE: YES, IT'S A PLEASURE.

AND I'M LORENE MILLS, THIS IS REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

I'D LIKE TO THANK YOUR AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US TODAY, WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM THE HEALY FOUNDATION, TAOS, NM.

♪ MUSIC