AMNA NAWAZ: We turn now to# our series On Democracy,## where we hear a range of perspectives# on how government should function,## what's led to this moment in American# history, and where the country goes next.

Tonight, we will focus on the rule of law## and President Trump's apparent# willingness to test its limits.

I spoke earlier with Alberto Gonzales,# dean of Belmont University's Law School.## He served as attorney general# and White House counsel under the## George W. Bush administration and is the# only person to ever hold both positions.

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, welcome# to the "News Hour."

Thanks for joining us.

ALBERTO GONZALES, Former U.S.# Attorney General: I'm happy to do so.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, even though you are# a Republican, in the last election,## you did choose to come forward and endorse Kamala# Harris, and saying so at the time, you said## Donald Trump is -- quote -- "the most serious# threat to the rule of law in a generation."

Just a month ago, you said, "What we're seeing# today is even more than I had imagined."

So, 100 days into this second Trump presidency,# what is your assessment?

Is the rule of law## safe?

Is it protected in this country?

ALBERTO GONZALES: Well, one of the things## that's important for people to understand is that# the rule of law constrains power.

And there are## other things that constrain power, such as norms# and institutions, customs, things of that nature.

And people who want to exercise# powers without restrictions,## they want to eliminate or at least# weaken those constraints.

And so,## obviously, it seems to me that the rule# of law is under some serious stress.

AMNA NAWAZ: Well, the president has lawyers# around him, right?

He has his general counsel## in the White House.

He has the attorney general# who's advising him on this.

And even when## you were in the White House under President# George W. Bush, you were accused of enabling## an abuse of executive power for some of the legal# arguments you crafted regarding the war on terror.

So is it just true that every White House## crafts the legal arguments that it# needs to move its agenda forward?

ALBERTO GONZALES: I think what we're seeing here## is the president surrounding himself# with loyalists w.. push towards trying to do what facilitates# what the president wants to have happen.

So their interpretation is one that perhaps you# and I might -- you and others that I served with## might disagree with.

But, nonetheless, it# is an attempt by lawyers.

You're absolutely## right.

Lawyers are involved, because the# president, quite frankly, most times isn't## a lawyer and certainly doesn't have the time# to sit down and go through the law books.

And that's why he does take advice from# lawyers.

But the lawyers that he's choosing,## it appears to me, have a fierce loyalty to# him.

And I was very loyal to President Bush.## Robert F. Kennedy was very loyal to his brother# John F. Kennedy.

But, nonetheless, hopefully,## you have lawyers in place that make a# good faith attempt to interpret the law## and are honest with the president saying,# you don't have the authority to do this.

AMNA NAWAZ: I hear you saying, hopefully,## that's the case.

But is that the case in this# inst.. ALBERTO GONZALES: Yes, sometimes, lawyers disagree# about the interpretation of laws.

And I think what## this president is trying to do is surround himself# with people who he believes will be loyal to him,## will give him the advice that will allow him to# carry out the agenda for which he campaigned on.

And so, again, I -- unless you're there in# the room and you're with the lawyers and the## president, you're not really sure what# advice is being given to the president.

AMNA NAWAZ: There's also the question about# whether or not the administration is in## compliance with court orders from judges.# There's the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia,## a Maryland man who the administration said# they mistakenly deported to El Salvador.

We saw the president last night say that he could# bring Abrego Garcia back if he wanted to, but he## is not.

Do you believe that this administration# is flouting a judge's orders in this case?

ALBERTO GONZALES: Well, before last night,## I think one might have legitimate questions# as to whether or not there was a flouting.

A judge did order the administration to facilitate# a transfer.

And last night, the president,## from what I have read, appeared to concede that# he did have the authority to simply ask for this## individual to be returned, which is going to# raise a question in the eyes of the judge,## well, then have you asked# and why haven't you asked?

You have been ordered to facilitate# the return of this individual.

And so## I think that might have been a sort of... AMNA NAWAZ: If I may, he seems to# be saying he's not asked and that## he doesn't want to.

That's why.

Does that# mean that he's i.. ALBERTO GONZALES: Well, again, I think what# you're going to -- given this new statement## by the president, you're probably# going to see a request by the judge## asking those very same questions.

And we will# see what the administration says or does.

And, at that point, I'm often# -- I have been asked many times,## when will we have a constitutional crisis?

In my# judgment, we will have a constitutional crisis## when the Supreme Court of the United States# commands the administration to do something## pursuant to the Constitution within a certain# period of time, and the president not doing so.

AMNA NAWAZ: Attorney General, you called# Donald Trump the most serious threat to## the rule of law in a generation.

Based on# the norm-breaking and the rule-bending we## have seen so far, are you worried that# you can't get it back once it's gone?

ALBERTO GONZALES: You know, it takes# a while to build up a cathedral like## the rule of law.

It doesn't# take very long to destroy it.

And so it can be destroyed, like a cathedral# can be destroyed, but it can be built back up## with the right kind of leadership and# dedication.

So do I think we will get## it back?

I'm hopeful we will get it back once we# have changes perhaps in leadership in Washington,## and not just in the White House, I think# Congress has been missing in action.

I don't know what they're doing.

They're doing# nothing, I guess is the right answer.

So once## we have new leadership in Washington, I think,# yes, it can be built up.

And I'm hopeful that## the institutions that exist today, those# norms that have not been torn down yet,## I hope they will continue to provide a check# on the excised -- the excess use of power.

AMNA NAWAZ: That is former U.S. Attorney# General Alberto Gonzales joining us tonight.

Sir, thank you so much for your# time.

Really appreciate it.

ALBERTO GONZALES: Thanks for having me.