>>> SHERROD BROWN'S RISKY MOVE ON DATA CENTERS.

>>> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD."

I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

WHILE NOT AS BIG AN ISSUE AS INFLATION AND THE ECONOMY, DATA CENTERS HAVE BECOME A FLASH POINT IN THIS YEAR'S CAMPAIGN.

OHIO HAS BECOME A MAGNET FOR WAREHOUSES FILLED WITH COMPUTERS.

THEY DRAW OPPOSITION BECAUSE THEY CONSUME A LOT OF ELECTRICITY, WATER, AND FARMLAND.

BUT, THEY ALSO CREATE A LOT OF CONSTRUCTION JOBS --UNION CONSTRUCTION JOBS.

WHICH IS WHY A NEW AD BY ORGANIZED LABOR CHAMPION SHERROD BROWN IS A BIT SURPRISING.

>> HE IS BEING CALLED THE FACE OF DATA CENTERS IN OHIO.

WHY?

BECAUSE JON HUSTED AGGRESSIVELY RECRUITING DATA CENTERS TO THE STATE, FAST TRACKING TAX DEALS, WHILE ORDINARY RESIDENTS WATCHED THEIR ELECTRICITY BILLS EXPLODE.

WE ARE HERE WITH OHIO SENATOR JON HUSTED, WITH A LOT OF EXPERIENCE WITH SOMETHING CALLED DATA CENTERS.

>> JON HUSTED, WHO IS HE REALLY WORKING FOR?

>> I AM SHERROD BROWN AND I APPROVE THIS MESSAGE.

>> THE AD COULD WIN BROWN VOTES IN RURAL OHIO.

BUT, IT COULD TURN OFF BUILDING TRADES PEOPLE.

TO DISCUSS THIS AND MORE, WE WELCOME THIS WEEK'S PANEL.

JO INGLES FROM OHIO PUBLIC RADIO, JAKE ZUCKERMAN FROM SIGNAL STATEWIDE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST MIKE GONIDAKIS, AND DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST BRIAN ROTHENBERG.

BRIAN, WE WILL START WITH YOU.

WITH THE SKILLED TRADE UNION SUPPORT DATA CENTERS BECAUSE OF THE CONSTRUCTION JOBS, MAINTAINING HVAC, PLUMBERS, ELECTRICIANS?

HOW MUCH OF A RISK IS IT FOR SHERROD BROWN ON THIS?

>> FIRST OF ALL, THE VOTERS ARE SPEAKING VERY LOUDLY, FOR ONE, AND RESEARCH JUST CAME OUT TODAY, BUT WHAT IS REALLY INTERESTING ABOUT IT IS, I THINK IT HAS BEEN MISCHARACTERIZED A LITTLE BIT.

I DON'T THINK HE IS SAYING, "YOU CAN'T HAVE A DATA CENTER."

I THINK WHAT HE SAID, WHICH IS NO DIFFERENT FROM WHAT OTHER ELECTRIC OFFICIALS INCLUDING ME, HAVE SAID, THEY SHOULD PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE, LOCAL GOVERNMENTS SHOULD HAVE A SAY, AND THE ENVIRONMENT SHOULD BE PROTECTED.

AND IF THAT HAPPENED, I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE A PROBLEM.

THE BIGGER PROBLEM FOR THE REPUBLICANS IN THE STATE IS THAT IF THEY DON'T DO THOSE THINGS, IT'S GOING TO THE BALLOT NEXT YEAR AND IT WILL BE VOTED DOWN.

THE SAFEST THING, IF YOU WANT TO HAVE THOSE JOBS IN OHIO, IS TO GET THOSE THINGS TAKEN CARE OF, INSTEAD OF THE STATE TAKING CARE OF ALL OF IT.

>> IS JOHN HUSTED VULNERABLE?

HE WAS THE PERSON THE ECONOMIC POINTS PERSON, IS HE NOW VULNERABLE FOR THAT SUCCESS?

>> NO, I DON'T THINK SO.

HE IS NO MORE VULNERABLE THAN SHERROD BROWN, LOOK, GUYS, LET'S NOT FORGET, SHERROD BROWN WAS IN THE LEGISLATURE FOR FOUR DECADES, THAT ALMOST 40 YEARS AT HOME, KIDS, AND WHEN THE OHIO DATA CENTERS CAME, QUIET.

WHEN ALL OF THOSE THINGS THAT HE CRITICIZED JON HUSTED FOR, HE WAS IN THE U.S.

SENATE, BUT NOW TWO YEARS AGO, THE VOTERS SAID NO TO SHERROD BROWN AND THEY ALWAYS GET IT RIGHT WHETHER THEY VOTE FOR MY PERSON OR NOT AND THEY ARE NOT GOING TO WAKE UP AND SAY, "SHERROD BROWN IS THE NEW GUY," NO, HE IS THE OLD GUY WHO SUPPORTED JO BIDEN AND NEVER OPPOSED DATA CENTERS UNTIL THIS ELECTION SO TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, I DON'T THINK JON HUSTED IS MORE VULNERABLE THAN SHERROD BROWN.

>> SHOULD VOTERS CARE THAT DATA CENTERS GET TAX BREAKS, OR SHOULD THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR ELECTRICITY?

OR, THEY DON'T WANT THEM IN THE BACKYARD?

>> I THINK THEY DO CARE, I THINK THERE ARE SOME PROVINCIAL CONCERNS WITH DATA CENTERS, THESE ARE HUGE PROJECTS, THEY THERE IS SOMETHING VERY FRUSTRATING, WHEN YOU DON'T WANT SOMETHING, TO HEAR THAT IT IS TAX DEVIATED, LIKE, I HAVE TO PAY MY FULL TAX BILL AND THIS THING THAT ME AND MY COMMUNITY ASKED NOT TO COME GET A TAX DEAL?

SO THERE IS A CERTAIN UNFAIRNESS AND I THINK THERE ARE SOME EXISTENTIAL FEARS ABOUT A.I., IS IT GOING TO TAKE MY JOB?

IS IT GOING TO MAKE MY POWER BILLS GO UP?

AND THAT ATTITUDE IS ALWAYS SORT OF IMPOSE ON THESE FACILITIES AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE POLITICAL CONSEQUENCES FOR WILL BE BUT I DON'T THINK SHERROD BROWN WANTS TO POKE THE BEAR.

>> YES, DATA CENTERS HAVE BEEN HERE FOR YEARS.

JO, THEY DON'T WANT TO SAY THEY OPPOSE DATA CENTERS BECAUSE THE DATA CENTERS DOOMING JOBS AND IT DOES MEAN ECONOMIC DEVELOP AND SO THEY SAY, OKAY, I WANT TAX BREAKS, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY DON'T USE ALL OF OUR WATER AND THEY PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE FOR ELECTRICITY.

IT IS HARD TO THROW THAT NEEDLE.

VIVEK RAMASWAMY, JON HUSTED?

>> ALL THE VOTERS I HEAR FROM, THEY ARE ALSO SAYING THE SAME THING, THEY ARE NOT SAYING, "WE DON'T WANT DATA CENTERS, PERIOD."

THEY ARE SAYING, THEY ARE SEEING THEIR ELECTRIC BILLS GO UP AND THEY ARE UPSET THAT SOMEONE ELSE MAYBE COMES IN, TOO, AT LEAST THEIR VIEW, DOESN'T PAY THEIR SHARE.

THAT IS A BIG ISSUE, NOT JUST WITH DATA CENTERS, THAT IS A BIG ISSUE IN THIS CAMPAIGN, PEOPLE NOT PAYING THEIR FAIR SHARE.

AND I THINK WE ARE GOING TO SEE THE POLITICIANS SPEAK TO THAT ON MORE THAN JUST DATA CENTERS.

>> LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT WHERE THIS RACE STANDS RIGHT NOW.

A COUPLE POLLS CAME OUT IN THE LAST FEW WEEKS, THE REAL CLEAR POLLING AVERAGE OF THE LAST FEW POLLS SHOWS --THEY ARE BASICALLY TIED.

SHERROD BROWN HAS LESS THAN A POINT LEAD OVER JON HUSTED, AND THE FOX NEWS POLLS A COUPLE YEARS AGO WAS SHOWING VIVEK WITH AN EIGHT POINT LEAD, BRIAN ROTHENBERG, IS THIS WHY SHERROD BROWN IS GOING HARDER --WELL, GOING HARDER AGAINST DATA CENTERS AND DATA CENTER ISSUES THEN PERHAPS HE WOULD HAVE A MONTH AGO?

>> WELL, I THINK THE INTERESTING THING IS, THESE NUMBERS HAVE NOT MOVED, AND PUBLIC POLLS AND PRIVATE POLLS ANYWHERE, AND REPUBLICANS HAVE SPENT A LOT OF MONEY --SHERROD IS JUST GOING UP.

BUT USUALLY, WHEN YOU --THE GOVERNOR'S RACE SPENDS $20 MILLION, HUSTED, AND THE NATIONAL REPUBLICANS HAVE SPENT GOD KNOWS HOW MUCH ATTACKING SHERROD AND IT STILL IN THE SAME PLACE, PART OF THAT IS BECAUSE OF THE CHANGE IN THE WAY MEDIA WORKS NOW, IT'S NO LONGER THREE TV STATIONS, DIGITAL IS OUT THERE.

SO, THE REAL QUESTION FOR HUSTED IS, HOW, MY NUMBERS HAVEN'T MOVED?

I HAVE BEEN ATTACKING THIS GUY FOREVER.

>> SO, ARE THE ADS JUST NOT EFFECTIVE AS THEY USED TO BE, MIKE?

BECAUSE THEY SPENT HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON THIS RACE.

>> I THINK YOU HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL AFTER LABOR DAY, RIGHT?

IF YOU WANT TO SEE REAL SPENDING, THE TSUNAMI IS COMING, GUYS.

THIS IS JUST A PUDDLE OF WATER, HERE.

AND WHEN VOTERS ARE PAYING ATTENTION, WHEN PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY WATCHING TV AGAIN -- THEY ARE WATCHING IT DURING THE WORLD CUP, OF COURSE, IN RECORD NUMBERS, WHICH IS PRETTY COOL --BUT, SATURDAY, SUNDAY NFL, YOU WILL SEE ADD, AFTER ADD, AFTER AD, AND THAT IS WHEN PEOPLE WILL FORMULATE THEIR OPINIONS, SO THEY ARE SETTING THE STAGE NOW.

HE CAN CONTROL THE PRICE OF FOOD, THE PRICE OF GROCERIES, CAN'T CONTROL IT, YOU KNOW?

IF THAT DOESN'T GET BETTER, IT WILL BE A BAD CYCLE FOR MY GUYS.

>> DO YOU SEE ADS CHANGING?

BECAUSE EVERYBODY KNOWS SHERROD, EVERYBODY KNOWS JON HUSTED.

DO YOU THINK THE ODDS ARE COMING THESE DAYS?

>> I'M GOING BACK TO THE 2024 CYCLE AND RECALLING OFF MEMORY HERE, I RECALL SHERROD BROWN WITH A HEFTY LEAD THAT NARROWED AND THEN DISSIPATED INTO THE ELECTION SO, LIKE WHAT HE JUST SAID, THERE WILL BE SO MUCH MONEY COMING.

THE DATA CENTER ISSUE, THOUGH, IT STRIKES ME THERE IS A LOT OF ENTROPY, HERE.

THE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS, DEMOCRATIC IS SPLIT, A LOT OF UNION AFFILIATION, A LOT OF I DON'T LIKE THIS NEW THING THAT KEEPS POPPING UP ALL OVER THE STATE, ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.

SIMILAR ISSUES GOING AROUND LIKE THE EPSTEIN ISSUE, THESE THINGS JUST DON'T FALL NEED UPON REPUBLICAN/DEMOCRATIC LINES, SO I AM CURIOUS, CAN SOMEBODY TAP INTO THAT ENERGY?

CAN SOMEBODY TAP INTO THAT ANGER THAT IS FLOATING AROUND?

TO PEEL OFF ONE LITTLE GROUP AT A TIME?

THIS PERSON IS WORRIED ABOUT EPSTEIN, THIS PERSON IS WORRIED ABOUT DATA CENTERS, EVERYBODY IS WORRIED ABOUT AFFORDABILITY?

>> YEAH, AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING AND WE ARE SEEING THEM START TO PEEL OFF, BUT I ALSO THINK THERE IS AN UNDERLYING FEELING OF, IT'S THAT, YOU KNOW, "THE MAN HAS IT."

YOU KNOW, "THE BIG GUY GETS ALL THE FUN, THEY GET ALL THE MONEY, THEY GET EVERYTHING."

AND I THINK WE ARE STARTING TO SEE THE POLITICIANS START TO PLAY THAT PART A LITTLE BIT MORE.

YOU KNOW, IN THEIR ADS AND WHAT THEY ARE SAYING.

AND I THINK WE WILL SEE THAT MORE AFTER LABOR DAY, AGAIN.

>>> VIVEK RAMASWAMY HAS A BIG MONEY ADVANTAGE.

THE REPUBLICAN AND HIS SUPPORTING GROUPS HAVE SPENT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON ADS INTRODUCING THE BILLIONAIRE, AND ATTACKING AMY ACTON.

BUT, AS FAR AS THE POLLS ARE CONCERNED, THEY HAVE YET TO HAVE A REAL IMPACT.

THE REAL CLEAR POLLING AVERAGE OF POLLS HAS THE RACE TIED.

THIS WEEK, THE COOK POLITICAL REPORT MOVED THE RACE FROM LEANS REPUBLICAN, TO TOSS UP, BECAUSE OF THE POLLING.

MIKE GONIDAKIS, MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS VIVEK HIMSELF TO VOTERS, NOW THE PACs ASSOCIATED WITH HIM ARE ATTACKING AMY ACTON, BUT HE IS STILL HIGH, WHAT IS GOING ON, THERE?

>> TO JAKE'S POINT, HALF OF OHIO WAS IN MYRTLE BEACH THE LAST 7-10 DAYS SO A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO POLLS, THEY ARE DOING OTHER THINGS.

>> WHY DID HE SPEND THE MONEY IN THE FIRST PLACE, THEN?

>> WELL, NO ONE HAS EVER RUN OUT OF MONEY, RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR OF OHIO OR UNITED STATES SENATE, SO IF WE ARE SPENDING MILLIONS, TENS OF MILLIONS MORE ARE COMING, SO BASICALLY SETTING THE STAGE NOW.

WE HAVEN'T SEEN AMY SPEND MUCH MONEY, YET.

SHE HAS A LOT OF MONEY, 1 MILLION OR WHATEVER IT IS, BUT TO RUN A RACE AND WIN IN OHIO IS NOT A LOT OF MONEY, SO -- >> THAT HAS TO BE GOOD NEWS FOR AMY ACTON, SHE HASN'T BEEN UP ON THE AIR AGGRESSIVELY WITH ADS AND COULD WIN THE RACE.

>> IT'S GREAT NEWS.

THEY SPENT $20 MILLION BEATING HER UP AND IT HAS GONE NOWHERE, ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE.

AND BETTER AND MORE IMPORTANTLY THAN THAT, IS THE INTERNAL POLL, ONE THAT WAS RELEASED FROM THE DOWN BALLOT CANDIDATES WHERE 73% OF THE PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW WHO HE WAS, BUT THEY ARE TIED.

IT HAS SOME LEGS RIGHT NOW.

WHAT HAPPENS FROM LABOR DAY ON IS GOING TO DETERMINE THIS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, KULEWICZ IS STARTING TO RAISE MONEY, SHE IS STARTING TO RAISE MONEY, SHERROD WILL HAVE WHATEVER MONEY HE WANTS.

IF THIS IS TIED IN SEPTEMBER AND THIS STUFF CONTINUES AND THIS AFFORDABILITY STUFF CONTINUES TO BE AN ISSUE AND GAS IS STILL UP, IT'S GOING TO BE A REALLY TOUGH, TOUGH FALL FOR GUYS LIKE MIKE GONIDAKIS.

>> THE DEMOCRATS, JO, ARE ALWAYS --I MEAN, SHERROD BROWN HAD A LEAD TWO YEARS AGO, RICHARD CORDRAY HAD A LEAD EIGHT YEARS AGO, MIKE DeWINE AND REPUBLICANS CAME HOME, THEY FELL IN LINE AND THEY CAME TO A RED STATE AND VOTED FOR THEIR PERSON.

>> YEAH AND IT IS STILL EARLY, SO I CAUTION ANYONE TO LOOK UP POLLS RIGHT NOW AND TRY TO PREDICT ANYTHING FROM THEM.

I CERTAINLY DON'T.

BUT, I THINK ONE THING WE ARE FORGETTING, TOO, IS THESE YOUNGER VOTERS IN PARTICULAR RIGHT NOW ARE JUST NOT KEYED IN.

THEY ARE NOT WATCHING THAT TV.

SO, ALL OF THIS MONEY THAT IS SPENT ON NETWORK TV ADS, YOU MIGHT AS WELL, YOU KNOW, FLUSH IT DOWN THE TOILET WHEN IT COMES TO YOUNG VOTERS, BECAUSE A LOT OF THEM DON'T EVEN HAVE THE ACCESS TO LOCAL STATIONS ANYMORE.

>> BUT, THEY ARE SEEING IT ON YOUTUBE, AND TIKTOK, AND THE INSTAGRAM WORLD.

>> SOMETIMES, YEAH.

>> ACTON SUPPORT AMONG INDEPENDENTS, JAKE, IS 28% PER THAT IS AN EYE-CATCHING NUMBER, IT IS EARLY WE HAVE TO TAKE POLLS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT, BUT PERCENT -- >> I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NUMBER NEEDS TO BE, BUT MATHEMATICALLY, THERE NEEDS TO BE A SIZABLE NUMBER OF INDEPENDENTS TO GO IN FOR HER.

AGAIN, I --AGAIN, THERE IS SO I THINK OPINIONS ARE JUST SO MALLEABLE NOW, IT IS HARD TO PREDICT THE FUTURE.

>> WINDOWS AMY ACTON START RUNNING ADS?

WHEN DOES SHE ATTACK VIVEK RAMASWAMY ON ADS?

SHE HAS THEM ON SOCIAL MEDIA, I HAVE SEEN THEM.

>> I THINK RIGHT NOW IF YOU ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE AND THEY ARE NOT BEING EFFECTIVE AGAINST YOU, WHY SPEND THE MONEY NOW?

ESPECIALLY, GIVEN WHAT WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT.

IF SHE CAN GET THROUGH TO AUGUST, INTO EARLY SEPTEMBER, NOT ONLY ARE WE GOING TO SEE MONEY FALLING FROM HER, BUT YOU ARE GOING TO SEE A LOT OF NATIONAL MONEY.

IF IT IS TIED IN SEPTEMBER, LABOR DAY, THIS RACE IS ALREADY GETTING MORE ATTENTION IN SOME WAYS THAN EVEN SHERROD'S RACE.

>> SHE DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY.

I MEAN, A 30-SECOND AD RIGHT NOW, WITH WHAT PEOPLE ARE WATCHING, 50, 60, $80 MILLION --EXCUSE ME, THOUSAND DOLLARS.

EXCUSE ME.

FOR ONE, NOT TWO, ONE 30- SECOND AD.

SHE DOESN'T HAVE THE MONEY TO SATURATE THE MARKET.

20 MEDIA MARKETS IN THE STATE OF OHIO, YOU NEED TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO GET A MESSAGE, TO PUNCH A MESSAGE THROUGH, SHE DOESN'T HAVE THE MONEY RIGHT NOW.

>> UNLESS THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE THAT ARE ENTRENCHED, PEOPLE THAT ARE MAKING THIS DECISION, AND THAT MIGHT BE WHERE WE ARE HEADED, THAT MIGHT BE WHY NUMBERS AREN'T SHIFTING.

>> HOW ABOUT OTHER WAYS TO GET ATTENTION?

HOW COME THESE CANDIDATES HAVEN'T AGREED TO DO POINTED INTERVIEWS, NOT JUST ON FOX OR CBS NOW, BUT LOCAL INTERVIEWS?

>> OR, DO THEY?

>> THAT'S WHAT I'M WONDERING?

>> I THINK, CANDIDATES, THEY ARE SEEING THE MESSAGE BEING VERY MEASURED RIGHT NOW.

ACCESS IS REALLY BUTTONED-DOWN, AND IF YOU WANT TO BE A REPORTER AND TALK TO A CANDIDATE, IT'S HARD TO SAY, "HEY, COME TALK TO ME FOR 10 MINUTES ABOUT ANYTHING I WANT TO TALK ABOUT."

IT IS --THEY ARE VERY STUCK ON THEIR MESSAGE.

THEY DON'T WANT TO GET IN A SITUATION WHERE THEY ARE STEPPING INTO A LANDMINE.

>> AND THEN, NOT PROVIDING A WHOLE LOT OF DETAILS, EVEN ON BIG ISSUES LIKE DATA CENTERS AND AFFORDABILITY.

IT'S ALL JUST KIND OF VAGUE, WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO.

>> I WILL POINT OUT THE VIVEK RAMASWAMY CAMPAIGN, HERE.

HE HAS SAID, WHETHER YOU LIKE HIM OR HATE HIM, THE IDEAS ARE SOME OF THE MORE INTERESTING IDEAS I HAVE SEEN GOING OUT THERE, THE ONE COMING AROUND BRIGHT NOW IS GETTING RID OF SUMMER BREAK IN SCHOOLS.

YOU CAN SEE RIGHT OFF THE BAT HOW PARENTS ARE GOING TO GO ALL IN ON THAT OR LOSE THEIR MINDS WHEN THEY HEAR THAT.

THESE THINGS GO OUT THERE AND THERE IS AN ENDLESS LINE OF PEOPLE LIKE ME THAT SAY, "THAT IS INTERESTING, TELL ME MORE ABOUT THAT, WHY DO YOU WANT TO DO THIS?

WHY IS THIS A GOOD IDEA?

SHOULD WE DO THIS?"

AND WE CAN'T GET THEM TO DO THAT.

THERE HAVE BEEN A COUPLE INSTANCES WHERE, THESE REALLY SPLASHY IDEAS COME OUT, AND THEN THERE ARE JUST PEOPLE NOT WILLING TO GO OUT THERE AND GIVE VOICE TO THEM.

I DON'T KNOW TOTALLY WHAT TO MAKE OF THEM, BUT I AM GETTING A RISK-AVERSE SENSE FROM BOTH CANDIDATES.

>> "RISK-AVERSE" IS THE TERM, I THINK.

>>> THE CONTROVERSY OVER THE STATE'S PRIVATE-PUBLIC ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AGENCY JOBS OHIO CONTINUES.

A CANDIDATE FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL IS RAISING CONFLICT OF INTEREST ISSUES.

DEMOCRAT JOHN KULEWICZ HAS FILED AN ETHICS COMPLAINT AGAINST THE CHAIR OF THE JOBS OHIO BOARD.

HE CLAIMS JOSH RUBIN HAS A CONFLICT OF INTEREST BECAUSE RUBIN'S LOBBYING FIRM HAS BIG CLIENTS THAT RECEIVE JOBS OHIO GRANTS --CLIENTS LIKE AMERICAN ELECTRIC POWER.

JOBS OHIO RECENTLY CREATED A $100 MILLION FUND TO HELP POWER PLANTS.

AEP COULD BENEFIT FROM THAT FUND, AS IT IS EXPLORING THE SMALL REACTORS.

JOBS OHIO SAYS IT HAS STRONG ETHICS POLICIES, AND THAT NO MONEY FROM THAT FUND HAS BEEN AWARDED, YET.

OF COURSE, THIS COMPLAINT FOLLOWS JOBS OHIO'S SUPPORT OF A QUESTIONABLE PODCASTER WHO WAS TIED TO FORMER OSU PRESIDENT TED CARTER.

JAKE ZUCKERMAN, A LOT OF TALK THIS SPRING ABOUT OVERSIGHT OVER JOBS OHIO, SOME PODCASTING CONTROVERSY.

WHERE DOES THAT STAND, NOW?

>> RIGHT NOW, WE ARE IN THE BREAK, THERE IS NOT GOING TO BE ANOTHER LEGISLATIVE SESSION UNTIL AFTER NOVEMBER.

I COULDN'T RULE OUT SOMETHING COMING UP IN THAT LAME DUCK SESSION, BUT I JUST --IT DOESN'T SEEM VERY LIKELY, GIVEN THE LACK OF REAL INTEREST IN REAL LEGISLATIVE HEARINGS ON IT.

SOMETIMES, THESE SCANDALS COME AND GO AROUND OHIO JOBS, BUT RENEWED, TWICE.

I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING ANYWHERE.

I DON'T THINK ANY CRACKDOWN IS COMING, I DON'T SEE ANY REASON TO BELIEVE ONE IS.

I THINK AS LONG AS OHIO CHOOSES TO STAFF SOME OF THESE BOARDS WITH LOBBYISTS, WE WILL ALWAYS HAVE THESE CONFLICTS OF INTERESTS PERCEIVED.

IT IS INEVITABLE.

>> IS AN ARGUMENT FOR NO LOBBYISTS ON THE JOBS OHIO BOARD, IS THAT A REASONABLE REQUIREMENT, DO YOU THINK?

>> IT COULD BE REASONABLE.

I WAS ON YOUR SHOW RECENTLY AND I SAID, LOOKS, THEY POINTED OUT THE NUMBERS OF THE JOBS OHIO BOARD AND THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE BOARD, THERE ARE NO SENATE CONFIRMATION HEARINGS, WHAT WE HAVE THOSE IN THERE?

DO THAT.

PERCEPTION IS REALITY IN POLITICS.

I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS A CONFLICT OR NOT, BUT THERE IS A PERCEPTION, THAT IS NOT GOOD.

YOU KNOW?

THIS GUY, WHATEVER HIS NAME IS, IS ALSO A BIG LOBBYIST FOR AEP, GETTING SWEETHEART DEALS.

YOU KNOW?

IT JUST RAISES RED FLAGS, IT JUST DOES.

>> BUT, YOU HAVE BEEN WITH JOBS OHIO FOR SOME TIME BUT CNBC THIS WEEK JUST NAMED OHIO NUMBER ONE IN THE COUNTRY FOR THEY HAVE BEEN DRIVING AROUND TOWN WITH THESE DIGITAL BILLBOARDS, JOBS OHIO, TOUTING THAT RECORD.

>> THERE IS AN INTERESTING THING ABOUT THAT, ON THIS JOBS OHIO ISSUE, ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT IS MOST CONCERNED ABOUT IT IS THE MANUFACTURER'S ASSOCIATION, WHICH BELIEVES THAT ALLOWING POWER COMPANIES TO HAVE THE POWER GENERATION, AND TO DO THESE NUCLEAR ENERGY PIECES, IS GOING TO DRIVE UP THE COSTS EVEN MORE, AND THAT WE DON'T EVEN REALLY HAVE THE PROBLEM THAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING, THEY ARE OVERSTATING IT.

AND, YOU KNOW, FULL DISCLOSURE, I WORK WITH JOHN KULEWICZ, BUT WHAT HE IS REALLY SAYING, HERE, IS NOT ONLY DOES JOSH RUBIN, THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF JOBS OHIO, HAVE A FIRM THAT REPRESENTS BUT THEY ALSO REPRESENT DATA CENTERS, LIKE AMAZON.

SO, THERE'LL QUESTION HERE IS, COUPLED WITH THE FACT THAT ALL THE LOCAL AUTHORITY ON POWER GENERATION HAS BEEN GIVEN TO THE POWER BOARD, PLUS YOU WILL HAVE $100 MILLION TO DEVELOP THIS TECHNOLOGY THAT COULD GO TWO POWER COMPANIES IT CAN GO TO.

PLUS, WE ARE GOING TO MANDATE 50% OF EVERY DATA CENTER HAS ON- SITE GENERATION.

YOU ARE LITERALLY MANDATING THAT YOU COULD HAVE A NUCLEAR POWER PLANT IN YOUR TOWN, IN YOUR BACKYARD, WITH NO OVERSIGHT.

>> $100 MILLION TO HELP NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS, SMALL ONES, GET DEVELOPED, IS STILL A LONG WAY OFF IF YOU CAN EVEN HAPPEN.

IS THERE A $100 MILLION FUND FROM JOBS OHIO FOR SOLAR AND WIND PROJECTS, JO?

>> NO, NO.

[ LAUGHTER ] AND THAT WON'T HAPPEN, I THINK IT'S SAFE TO SAY THAT.

THE OTHER THING IS, THIS IS GOING TO COME DOWN TO WHAT PEOPLE FEEL.

WHAT DO INDIVIDUALS FEEL?

AND RIGHT NOW, I CAN TELL YOU THAT I HEAR PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THEIR ENERGY BILL.

THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT THE ELECTRICITY THAT HAS GONE UP SIGNIFICANTLY, AND, YOU KNOW, NOW THAT PEOPLE ARE USING THEIR AIR CONDITIONERS, YOU KNOW, THEIR NEXT BILL IS REALLY GOING TO HURT.

AND, YOU KNOW, THAT IS CUMULATIVE.

WHEN YOU TAKE THAT AND YOU PUT MORE, YOUR GROCERIES, YOUR GAS, AND EVERYTHING ELSE --PEOPLE VIEW LIFE THROUGH THAT LENS OF WHERE THEY ARE.

>> SO, WHAT WILL IT TAKE --IF IT EVER HAPPENS --FOR THE LEGISLATURE TO MAKE SOME CHANGES TO HOW JOBS OHIO IS RUN?

THEY HAVE A $300 MILLION BUDGET, IT IS FUNDED THROUGH WHAT USED TO BE -- IT STILL, TECHNICALLY IS, A PUBLIC RESOURCE, THE LIQUOR SALES IN THE STATE OF OHIO.

SO, IT IS QUASIPUBLIC MONEY, BUT THERE IS NO REAL PUBLIC OVERSIGHT.

>> LOOK, A LOT OF THESE THINGS COME DOWN TO INERTIA AND THE LEGISLATURE HAD A PERFECTLY GOOD OPPORTUNITY WHEN IT RENEWED OR CAME TO THE CONTROLLING BOARD BUT THIS WAS BROUGHT TO THE PUBLIC, I THINK THERE WAS SOME PRESSURE SAYING THAT SUCCESSFULLY DELAYED THE VOTE ON THIS, THE CONTROLLING BOARD WHICH IS MADE UP OF MEMBERS OF THE OHIO LEGISLATURE, MARCH, WENT AHEAD AND VOTED FOR IT.

IT SEEMED LIKE THE LEGISLATURE REALLY LOST ITS MOMENT, AND THEN WE GET SOME OF THE BYPRODUCT OF WHEN YOU HAVE OPAQUE GOVERNANCE HAPPEN, YOU HAVE THESE SORTS OF THINGS, YOU HAVE THESE SORTS OF AFFAIRS AND PUBLIC MONEY GOING PLACES IT SHOULDN'T.

I AM HAPPY TO EAT MY WORDS WHEN THE LEGISLATURE COMES UP WITH THIS 11th HOUR JOBS OHIO OVERSIGHT BILL, BUT I DON'T SEE WHAT EVIDENCE HAS PRESENTED ITSELF TO SUGGEST THAT WILL HAPPEN.

>> THE GOVERNOR IS GOING TO VETO IT, HE PROBABLY WILL.

HE WOULD PROBABLY VETO THAT BILL ON HIS WAY OUT THE DOOR.

>> BUT, I GUESS, WAS THE PODCASTING SCANDAL BIG ENOUGH?

I MEAN, IF IT COMES DOWN TO, A SWEETHEART DEAL WITH A LARGE CORPORATION FOR JOBS OHIO, WOULD --BE MET THAT WOULD BE THE STRAW THAT BREAKS THE CAMELS BACK AND THIS IS, WHAT, $60,000, SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

>> THE PRESENCE OF JOBS OHIO LOST HIS JOB OVER IT BUT IT IS NOT EARTH SHATTERING.

>> A HIGHER LIKELIHOOD OF FAILURE, THERE IS NO WORKING, SMALL MODULAR REACTOR IN THE UNITED STATES AND THERE IS $100 MILLION COMING FROM THE STATE OF OHIO TO BREATHE ONE INTO EXISTENCE.

I MEAN, THAT IS SPECULATIVE.

I THINK YOU PUT MONEY OUT THERE LIKE THAT WITH A REASONABLE UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS MIGHT NOT HAPPEN, WE MIGHT NOT BE THE PIONEERS, OF SMALL MODULAR -- >> THIS IS 1970s AND ALL THE FIGHTS OVER NUCLEAR POWER, I [ LAUGHTER ] GETTING THESE THINGS GOING --ANYWAY -- >>> THERE IS SOME CONCERN THAT STATE MANDATED OHIO PUBLIC UNIVERSITY INTELLECTUAL DIVERSITY CENTERS ARE NOT ATTRACTING ENOUGH STUDENTS.

STATE LAWMAKERS CREATED THE CENTERS AT OSU AND FOUR OTHER SCHOOLS THREE YEARS AGO.

SUPPORTERS SAY, THE CENTERS COUNTERACT LIBERAL BIAS ON CAMPUSES.

BUT, SOME SCHOOLS REPORT LOW ENROLLMENT.

WORRIED THAT UNIVERSITIES ARE NOT PROMOTING, OR, PERHAPS, UNDERMINING THE CENTERS, STATE SENATOR JERRY CIRINO HAS FILED A BILL THAT WOULD REQUIRE ALL UNIVERSITY STUDENTS TAKE A CIVICS CLASS AT THE CENTERS.

JO INGLES, MANDATING CIVICS CLASSES, IS THAT -- THAT'S WHAT HE WANTS TO DO, LAWMAKERS SHOULD HAVE THAT ROLE?

>> WELL, HE THINKS THAT'S THE WAY TO GO ABOUT IT, AND HONESTLY, I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS RIGHT NOW, THE STUDENTS TAKING IT, UNIVERSITY OF TOLEDO'S INSTITUTE OF AMERICAN CONSTITUTIONAL THOUGHT AND LEADERSHIP --THAT IS A LONG ONE --THEY OFFERED FIVE CLASSES WITH A TOTAL ENROLLMENT OF 12, FOR SPRING 2026.

FALL 2026, THEY HAVE 60 STUDENTS REGISTERED FOR SEVEN CLASSES.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT OHIO STATE, HERE -- >>> WELL, WE HAVE THE OHIO STATE NUMBERS, HERE -- ENROLLMENT AT OSU'S SALMON CHASE CENTER GOT OFF TO A SLOW START, BUT SEEMS TO BE PICKING UP.

IT WENT FROM 29 STUDENTS AND THREE COURSES WHEN IT FIRST OPENED IN THE FALL OF '25, THEN 131 STUDENTS IN THE SPRING.

AND NOW, THE CENTER EXPECTS ABOUT 350 STUDENTS THIS COMING FALL, WITH TEN COURSES.

SO, I MEAN, JO, IT'S A BRAND- NEW PROGRAM.

>> IT IS A BRAND-NEW PROGRAM, BUT THERE ARE OTHER CLASSES THAT ARE BRAND-NEW, THAT STUDENTS FLOCK TO BECAUSE THEY ARE INTERESTED IN THE SUBJECT MATTER.

SO, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, IT --YOU KNOW, IF THEY MANDATE THAT STUDENTS HAVE TO TAKE THIS CLASS, OF COURSE, IT WILL INCREASE THE NUMBERS.

AND I THINK THAT IS WHERE THEY >> SO, BRIAN, DO YOU THINK THERE IS A NEED TO MANDATE IT BASED ON THOSE NUMBERS?

IT HAS DOUBLED EVERY SEMESTER.

>> UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, WHICH TALKS ABOUT INTELLECTUAL FREEDOM, FREEDOM OF SPEECH, FREEDOM OF THOUGHT, I MEAN, COME ON, REALLY?

WE ARE GOING TO INDOCTRINATE PEOPLE?

I MEAN, THIS GOES WAY OVER THE TOP IN TERMS OF CREATING A PROGRAM, WASTING $10 MILLION THAT PEOPLE AREN'T EVEN USING, AND THEN FORCING IT ON PEOPLE.

COME ON!

THIS IS CRAZY.

>> FORCING PEOPLE TO LEARN HOW THEIR GOVERNMENT WORKS?

COME ON, BRAD.

YOU WENT TO COLLEGE, I WENT TO COLLEGE, MY DAUGHTER IS IN COLLEGE NOW, THERE ARE PLENTY OF CLASSES SHE IS REQUIRED TO TAKE, MANDATED TO TAKE, TO GET HER DEGREE, AND IT'S THE SAME THING.

SHE HAS TO TAKE CERTAIN CLASSES AND IF THIS IS ANOTHER ONE SHE HAS TO TAKE IN HER FOUR YEARS -- >> SHOULD THEY DICTATE WHETHER A SCHOOL OR MAJOR --OHIO UNIVERSITY DROPPED ITS BACHELORS IN FRANCE, OSU DROPPED ITS MAJOR IN MEDIEVAL AND RENAISSANCE STUDIES.

DROPPED ITS PHYSICS MAJOR.

REQUIRE PHYSICS VIA STATE LAW?

>> PROBABLY NOT BUT MOST OF THE COURSES UNIVERSITIES ARE REQUIRING, I DON'T KNOW, STATISTICS, ENGLISH LANGUAGE, BASELEVEL STUFF --THIS IS POLITICS.

THIS DOES FEEL MORE LIKE COMPELLED SPEECH.

THE IDEA OF THIS, IS FREE SPEECH.

PEOPLE ARE SUPPOSED TO CHOOSE TO TAKE THEM OR CHOOSE NOT TO TAKE THEM.

I DON'T WANT TO START NAMING WOKE SOUNDING CLASSES, BUT I DON'T REALLY SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THROWING CONSERVATIVE STUDENTS INTO --I AM NOT GOING TO START NAMING CLASSES --BUT, INTO MORE LIBERAL LEANING CLASSES OR VICE VERSA, IT'S FORCING STUDENTS TO LEARN AND PAY FOR THAT WHICH THEY DON'T CARE TO.

>>> OKAY, TIME FOR OUR FINAL, OFF-THE-RECORD PARTING SHOTS.

BRIAN ROTHENBERG, YOU ARE FIRST.

>> WELL, THE HAITIAN POPULATION GOT A FEW MORE DAYS BEFORE THEY WILL LOSE THEIR JOBS, BUT PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE IN SPRINGFIELD, THERE ARE 12,000 PEOPLE, THEY HAVE BEEN PAYING THE RENT, THEY HAVE JOBS, IT WILL BE A DISASTER FOR THEIR ECONOMY AND EVEN THE HOUSING HOUSES.

>> MIKE?

>> THIS WEEK POSTED ON TWITTER SOME DEPRESSING HEADLINES ABOUT THE VIOLENCE GOING ON IN COLUMBUS.

IF YOU ARE SICK AND TIRED OF BEING SICK AND TIRED, VOTE THESE GUYS OUT.

>> JAKE?

>> GOING TO LIGHTEN THINGS UP HERE, THE GREATEST ATHLETE CURRENTLY IN SPORTS RIGHT NOW IS RIPPING UP THE TOUR DE FRANCE.

WE OWE HIM MORE RESPECT.

ENJOY JULY, EVERYONE.

>> IN BETWEEN THE WORLD CUP GAMES, WATCHING THE TOUR DE FRANCE.

>> I WANT TO AD SOMETHING TO OUR DISCUSSION ABOUT ALL OF THESE CIVICS CENTERS.

THE BILL THAT IS UNDER CONSIDERATION WOULD SAY THAT THE MONEY THAT COMES IN FROM STUDENTS TAKING THOSE CLASSES WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK INTO THOSE CIVICS CENTERS.

CAN YOU IMAGINE, IF IT WAS AN ENGLISH CLASS AND IT HAD TO GO BACK INTO THE ENGLISH DEPARTMENT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

>> JO SAID, YOUNG PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO VOTE.

I HAVE A AN IDEA TO GET YOUNG PEOPLE TO VOTE, MANDATE MATH CLASSES, STATISTICS CLASSES IN EVERY UNIVERSITY, YOU DO THAT, THAT WILL GET THEM TO VOTE.

>> ANYWAY, THAT'S "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK A NEWS YOUTUBE PAGE.

THERE, YOU CAN SEE AND SHARE EVERY EPISODE OF THIS PROGRAM.

GO TO YOUTUBE AND SEARCH FOR, "WOSU NEWS."

SUBSCRIBE SO YOU CAN WATCH ENSURE THIS SHOW WITH YOUR FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS.

ALSO, WE ARE ON DEMAND AT THE PBS APP AND WOSU.ORG.

FOR OUR CREW AND OUR PANEL, I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.